Victini (Analysis)

PK Gaming

Persona 5
is a Site Content Manager Alumnusis a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Smogon Discord Contributor Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Top Contributor Alumnusis a Past SPL Champion
choosing a nature is probably the most difficult decision you can make with regards to this set. If you are focused purely on tearing through defensive threats, and causing as much immediate damage as possible, the Adamant nature is your friend. It may soon prove to be your downfall when facing a Salamence, Hydregion, or Haxorus who could potentially outspeed after a drop from V-create, so be mindful of the risk.
They still outspeed with a jolly nature after a speed drop so this is an error. Concerning the nature itself, Jolly doesn't deserve the main slash. Of the 3 pokemon, only Salamence commonly runs max speed, the other 2 pokemon (Haxorus & Hydreigon) typically run +atk and +SpA boosting natures because they rarely see a reason to run max speed.

Garchomp will have no problem switching in on any one of Victini's moves, and as such, requires special attention. Defensive Water types like Slowbro or Unaware Quagsire counter it well, while Skarmory and Suicune can end its sweep with Roar. Be on the look-out for Heatran, too, who can net a free Flash Fire boost and set up a Substitute as Victini switches out.
Garchomp takes (58.7% - 69.3%) and (88% - 103.6%) in sun. It does have a problem switching in. Reword that sentence so that it mentions that Garchomp as a check the first time around and it can't switch into Victini at all when the sun is up. Also, Unaware does not provied Quagsire with protection against Victini, in fact it means that it deals less damage to Victini after its stats drop. Just refer to it as "Quagsire."
 

shrang

General Kenobi
is a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Top Contributor Alumnusis a Battle Simulator Moderator Alumnus
I don't know if I'm too late, but personally, I find Zen Headbutt to be pretty useless (I mean, what is it killing that V-Create isn't)? If you want a more spammable STAB attack, I'd probably just go with Flare Blitz if you have the option of sweeping, or just have no slash with U-turn at all.
 
Scarf Choice set is amazing, but i think there are moves better than Final Gambit... for example Zen Headbutt, Quick Attack (it sucks, but is a priority move) or Brick Break against Dark-Type such as Hydreigon or Zoroark
 

AccidentalGreed

Sweet and bitter as chocolate.
is a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Top Contributor Alumnus
Scarf Choice set is amazing, but i think there are moves better than Final Gambit... for example Zen Headbutt, Quick Attack (it sucks, but is a priority move) or Brick Break against Dark-Type such as Hydreigon or Zoroark
There are honestly better choices for an offensive Choice Scarf user if its using an offensive option in place of Final Gambit.
 
Searing shot should be mentioned, but I know it's probably too late, on the support set, 100 base power 30% chance to burn, it's a bulked up lava plume :) just a suggestion :)
 
Neither offensive Choice Scarf set made the cut. Infernape is a better choice than Victini as a Scarfer 100% of the time....
I'm just noticing that this states that Infernape is a better offensive Scarf user than Victini, but neither of them ended up with a Scarf set in their analysis. I even ctrl+F'd "Choice Scarf" for Infernape's currently finished analysis, and the only two mentions are regarding opponents in Scarf Tyranitar and Scarf Terrakion - not even the Other Option area mentions it. If one is so heavily outclassed by the other, making a Darmanitan-esque V-create lesser worthy of mention to a slightly faster, far less powerful Fire Blast/Flare Blitz (plus other moves), shouldn't the Ape at least get a Scarf set to boast how much better it apparently is than Victini? Infernape, I will say, is neutral to SR and has that great alternate STAB, but Victini's sheer power with V-create, and good coverage moves with Fusion Bolt and the tolerable Brick Break, as well as the ability to actually take a non-Aqua-Jet priority attack must count for something. This might be the wrong place to put this, but I know at least I'm curious about it. I believe on Victini's potential as a Scarfer. QC might not, but I do.
 
As with 100 speed becoming less useful in terms of "Outspeeding", a scarf set with Victini's access to powerful moves like Thunder seems very viable. And for the Death Gambit set, it seems that with Stealth Rock so common, it is rarely viable to be able to switch in and Death Gambit.:jump:
 
Even if Victini comes into Stealth Rock once, it will still have 303 HP remaining. That is enough to OHKO uninvested 80 base HP attackers (Latios, etc).
 

SJCrew

Believer, going on a journey...
is a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Battle Simulator Moderator Alumnus
I'm just noticing that this states that Infernape is a better offensive Scarf user than Victini, but neither of them ended up with a Scarf set in their analysis. I even ctrl+F'd "Choice Scarf" for Infernape's currently finished analysis, and the only two mentions are regarding opponents in Scarf Tyranitar and Scarf Terrakion - not even the Other Option area mentions it. If one is so heavily outclassed by the other, making a Darmanitan-esque V-create lesser worthy of mention to a slightly faster, far less powerful Fire Blast/Flare Blitz (plus other moves), shouldn't the Ape at least get a Scarf set to boast how much better it apparently is than Victini?
For one, you're applying the wrong logic here: I deemed Victini's Choice Scarf set outclassed by Infernape, not the guy who wrote the Infernape analysis. If, hypothetically, they're both bad at abusing a Choice Scarf set, neither of them would get it, regardless of how much better Infernape is with it.

Victini's sheer power with V-create
...is put to better use with Choice Band. Take a look at your standard Sand team, a list of Pokemon who also happen to check Victini:

Tyranitar - is not 2HKOed without a Choice Band
Hippowdon - is not 2HKOed without a Choice Band
Garchomp - not KOed and is faster after a V-create Speed drop.
Latios - is not KOed and is faster after V-create
Heatran - cannot be 2HKOed in any way, shape, or form without Choice Band
Excadrill - KOed regardless of set; hopeless matchup on the revenge
Ferrothorn - KOed regardless of set
Gliscor - is not 2HKOed and becomes faster after V-create

Rain teams: V-create is useless and gives Politoed free switch-ins.

Due to the astonishing lack of offensive Pokemon weak or neutral to Fire type attacks in OU, Scarf Victini is not an attractive option at all. Heck, if you're not going to run Scarf Victini in OU, run Scarf Darmanitan. Sure, it's defenses are garbage, but it's way more threatening.

STATUS: Adding the changes as we speak.
 
Okey dokey! Just a difference between the two analysis I noticed - though I know Infernape is completely out of your control - and felt the urge to bring up. Sorry if I appeared standoffish in any way; it wasn't at all intended.
 

AccidentalGreed

Sweet and bitter as chocolate.
is a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Top Contributor Alumnus

[Overview]
<p>Victini is a curious case of an awesome concept with a few crippling flaws. On the bright side, its claim to fame as a Fire-type legend lies within its exclusive exclusive ability, Victory Star, which raises the accuracy of all of its moves by 10%, a diverse learnset to take advantage of it, and the insanely powerful V-create. On the other hand, it faces some very stiff competition for the role of an offensive Fire-type in OU, and its weaknesses to the ubiquitous Stealth Rock and Earthquake leave its defensive merits much to be desired. All things considered, while Victini may not be the fastest or strongest little guy in town, it has more than a few neat tricks up its sleeve and is very capable of hanging with big shots of OU. Be on your toes should you ever suffer the misfortune of encountering one.</p>


[SET]
name: Physical Attacker
move 1: V-create
move 2: Fusion Bolt
move 3: Brick Break
move 4: U-turn / Zen Headbutt
item: Choice Band / Life Orb
ability: Victory Star
nature: Adamant / Jolly
evs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe

[SET COMMENTS]
<p>This set goes to show that the key to becoming a wallbreaking powerhouse is, quite literally, a giant, flaming V-symbol. V-create stands as the strongest attack in Victini's arsenal at a towering 180 base power, and is one of the many reasons Victini is difficult to switch into. For example, Latios, an otherwise flawless Victini counter, has trouble switching in on a Choice Banded V-Create, and is looking at a pretty good chance of being OHKOed after Stealth Rock damage if Victini is running an Adamant nature. Tyranitar, another common check to Victini, has a good chance of being 2HKOed by the very same attack while running a bulky spread with 252 HP EVs. Even Garchomp finds itself losing over half of its HP if it attempts to switch in.</p>

<p>As powerful as
(space)V-create is, it does come with one very crippling setback: the user's Speed and defenses will lower immediately after use. Walls like Hippowdon or Porygon-2 might not be outspeeding it any time soon, but this is definitely a concern with bulky offensive Pokemon. The most common(Space)of these include Rotom-W, Dragonite, Hydregion Hydreigon, and Salamence, all of which can take at least one hit (albeit not well), outspeed it, and KO it.</p>

<p>The rest of its moves make their home on this set for the sole purpose of augmenting anything V-create might fail to KO. Fusion Bolt covers bulky Water-types, while Brick Break hits Heatran and Tyranitar, and U-turn scouts predicted switches, wears down counters, and keeps matchups in your favor. Zen Headbutt, while weaker than V-create in most cases, is useful as an alternative STAB to hit slower Pokemon neutral or weak to it without having to lower Victini's stats.</p>

[Additional Comments]
<p>Choosing a nature is probably the most difficult decision you can make with regards to this set. If you are focused purely on tearing through defensive threats, and causing as much immediate damage as possible, an Adamant nature is your friend. It may, however, soon prove to be your downfall when facing a Salamence, Hydregion, or Haxorus running max Speed.</p>

<p>Garchomp will have no problem switching in on any one of Victini's moves, and as such, requires special attention. Defensive Water-types like Slowbro or Unaware Quagsire counter Garchomp well, while Skarmory and Suicune can end its sweep with Roar. Be on the look
-(space)out for Heatran, too, who can net a free Flash Fire boost and set up a Substitute as Victini switches out.</p>

[SET]
name: Special Sweeper
move 1: Searing Shot / Fire Blast
move 2: Thunder / Thunderbolt
move 3: Focus Blast
move 4: Psychic
item: Life Orb
ability: Victory Star
nature: Timid
evs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe

[SET COMMENTS]
<p>This is your quintessential special attacking Victini set, making full use of the coverage and movepool options its fellow Fire-type brethren lack. Searing Shot is
your Victini’s primary STAB attack, deterring almost anything that isn't immune to a burn from switching in due to its 30% secondary effect rate. Fire Blast takes advantage of the accuracy bonus, raising its accuracy to a more acceptable 93.5%, and can be used over Searing Shot, should you find yourself dissatisfied with the damage output.</p>

<p>Thunder's accuracy may not make it such an attractive option at first glance, but Victory Star alleviates this concern somewhat;
you Victini can usually afford the accuracy drop for the extra power, as it packs the punch necessary to 2HKO bulky Water types such as Jellicent, Suicune, and Vaporeon that Thunderbolt might normally miss. Still, if reliability is your primary concern, Thunderbolt can be used instead. Focus Blast is non-negotiable, as it eliminates both Heatran and the ever-prevalent Tyranitar, the latter of which can put Victini in a checkmate position with Pursuit.</p>

<p>Last but not least, Psychic rounds off coverage as Victini's secondary STAB, which can be used to effectively check the likes of Conkeldurr, Machamp, and other bulky Fighting-types, threatening to OHKO before they can cause too much damage. Tentacruel is 2HKOed as well, mitigating the need to rely on weaker or less accurate Electric-type attacks to keep it at bay.</p>

[Additional Comments]
<p>This set doesn't need much support to function well. Sun support from Drought Ninetales helps Searing Shot secure guaranteed KOs on Virizion, Brozong, and Jirachi, but also forces
you Victini to switch to Thunderbolt, due to Thunder's decreased accuracy in Sun. It's also much easier said than done to put Ninetales and Victini on the same team, since the two share a lot of the same weaknesses, including Stealth Rock.</p>

[SET]
name: Choice Scarf
move 1: Final Gambit
move 2: U-turn
move 3: V-create
move 4: Fusion Bolt
item: Choice Scarf
nature: Jolly
ability: Victory Star
evs: 252 HP / 4 Att / 252 Spe

[SET COMMENTS]
<p>In a metagame without Explosion, this particular set can come as a real surprise to your opponent. While Final Gambit may have its flaws, perhaps the greatest of which is its dependency on the user's health, it also has plenty of strategic merit. First off, the amount of damage Final Gambit does is set based on HP. At 404 HP, Victini is capable of eliminating a vast majority of OU's Pokemon, meaning that unless
you Victini fails to land your its attack, you should expect a KO from this set almost every match.</p>

<p>One of the best ways to play this set is as an early-to-mid game scout. If the lead match-up is unfavorable, U-turn out and wait for another opportunity. Try to avoid matching up with Tyraniar, though, since a slower Pursuit
s can catch a U-turn user before it switches out for full damage. If hazards are not up, you Victini can continue to do this until you've trapped your opponent into a position where they will lose something important no matter what they do.</p>

<p>This can be a strategic boon if used properly, but keep in mind that you only get one shot, and if
you Victini misses its target, or use it as a Ghost-type switches in, you are left without a Victini. Still, this set can disrupt the synergy of any good team by forcing your opponent to choose which Pokemon they want to sacrifice, and create just the right opening for another dangerous team member.</p>

[Additional Comments]
<p>Blissey and Jellicent are this set's worst enemies; Blissey has no problem taking a Final Gambit with its massive base HP, while Jellicent is immune. The best way to handle either would be to keep momentum against them by predicting their switches with U-turn, and trap them with a Tyranitar or Dugtrio while they're at sufficiently low health. Pursuit users in general go a long way to ensuring that you do not sacrifice your Victini needlessly on any
Ghost-typeyour opponent may carry. Rapid Spin users also make good teammates for Victini to keep Final Gambit from weakening as it loses health on each switch-in.</p>

[SET]
name: Support
move 1: Will-O-Wisp
move 2: Taunt
move 3: Focus Blast
move 4: Psychic / Fire Blast
ability: Victory Star
nature: Timid
evs: 252 HP / 4 SpAtk / 252 Spe

[SET COMMENTS]
<p>While Victini is mainly an offensive Pokemon, it has great bulk, useful resistances, and feasible support value. One of its key perks is the improved accuracy of Will-O-Wisp, which Victory Star raises to a solid 82.5%. Most of Victini's checks don't appreciate being worn down by burn damage, especially ones that rely on Substitute or use physical attacks. Garchomp, Terrakion, and Landorus are all punished on the switch-in, and walls are further hindered by Taunt, denying them any healing or setup opportunities. Tyranitar is not an issue as far as this set is concerned unless it runs Choice Scarf or something unorthodox like Lum Berry. Blissey and Chansey, common enemies to all special attackers, are also rendered completely useless and setup bait for any physical powerhouse on your team.</p>

[Additional Comments]
<p>The fourth slot can be used for almost anything you don't want to give a free turn to, but the options listed are the safest and optimal ways to take advantage of Victini's capabilities. Run Psychic if you want to check Fighting-types more efficiently; use Fire Blast to handle Steel- and Grass-types.</p>

<p>The EVs are for maximum bulk and maximum Speed. Once your opponent is aware of this set, its lack of offensive power could work against you; offensive powerhouses will have no problem switching in on Taunt or a resisted move. It would be advisable to carry an especially potent wall to cover anything you fail to catch on the switch-in with a burn, like Skarmory or Hippowdon.</p>

[Other Options]
<p>Victini has a whole host of other options, but can scarcely afford a move slot for them. Grass Knot, while less consistent in damage output, offers an alternative method for killing many bulky Water-types and contending with Tyranitar. Shadow Ball should only be used with Latios, Latias, andsimilar match-ups in mind, since its STAB Fire attacks or other coverage moves offer equal or more power in most cases. Psyshock allows special attacking sets to deal a decent amount of damage to Blissey, while Eviolite Chansey remains unfazed.</p>

<p>At first glance, Trick Room set houses one of the most attractive sweeping options Victini can run. V-create's high base power and ability to lower Victini's speed makes it a theoretical shoe-in for success. In reality, however, it is disappointingly difficult to work with. Even with a Brave nature and 0 Speed IVs, its base speed is far too high to get past some of the slower Pokemon that can move first and KO it while under the effects of Trick Room; Quagsire, Slowbro, and Hippowdon
, are just a few examples. Test it to your heart's content, but brace yourself for disappointment.</p>

[Checks and Counters]
<p>Victini's counters depend heavily on the type of set it's running. Specially offensive variants will be loathe to face down premier special walls Blissey and Chansey. Even with its large movepool, faster Dragon-types almost universally counter it, especially the likes of Latios, Latias, and Garchomp. Physically-oriented Dragon-types should be cautious of switching in, as a burn from Searing Shot or Will-o-Wisp will render them ineffective.</p>

<p>Physical sets are a hair trickier to deal with, due to V-create's absurd damage output. Salamence's Intimidate helps it check physical sets easier, but a Choice Band V-create will still deal close to half its HP in damage. Bulky Water-types can check it, provided they avoid switching into Fusion Bolt. Slowbro is a notable exception in this regard, as Regenerator allows it to lessen the risk of switching into the wrong move. Being weak to Pursuit also means Tyranitar with a Choice Scarf or Krookodile will remove it from the match when Victini is at sufficiently low on HP. A Choice Band Weavile will take it out for sure at -1 Defense and a round of Stealth Rock damage.</p>

<p>Offensive powerhouses with super effective STAB attacks, like Landorus, Terrakion, and Excadrill, can easily scare it out. As long as you can keep Stealth Rock up and avoid being burned, securing and maintaining momentum against a Victini is a surefire way to defeat it.</p>


There was quite a mess here after implementing the GP checks. Also, when writing analyses, "you" are not the Pokemon you're writing about, so I fixed most of those instances.
 
Um has anyone mentioned the trick room, v create set I use it in OU and catch people by surprise. I can get at least 1 kill a game a doing a nice chunk to another poke.
 
Not a good idea. As SJCrew pointed out, this isn't your typical scarfer at all; Final Gambit is what makes it good, and you need that to be as strong as possible. The last two moves are mostly filler. You'll normally be using this with spin/bounce support, so hazards shouldn't really be an issue.

Also, speaking of Final Gambit,
but keep in mind that you only get one shot, and if Victini misses its target, or use it as a Ghost-type switches in, you are left without a Victini.
The Bulbapedia page on Final Gambit states that the user doesn't faint if the attack doesn't affect the opponent for one reason or another. I've tested it myself with a Basculin in Celestial Tower, and the results concur with Bulbapedia's.
 
Not a good idea. As SJCrew pointed out, this isn't your typical scarfer at all; Final Gambit is what makes it good, and you need that to be as strong as possible. The last two moves are mostly filler. You'll normally be using this with spin/bounce support, so hazards shouldn't really be an issue.

Also, speaking of Final Gambit,
The Bulbapedia page on Final Gambit states that the user doesn't faint if the attack doesn't affect the opponent for one reason or another. I've tested it myself with a Basculin in Celestial Tower, and the results concur with Bulbapedia's.
And 401 makes you miss...what kills exactly? Celebi and shaymin will take massive damage from v-generate so you wouldn't need to death gambit them. I could see it being useful to take down mew or tangrowth, but a layer of rocks will ensure the ohko on those two anyway. Assuming that you can spin rocks is also not a great thing to count on, as there are lots of ways in which your opponent can keep the rocks up such as by spinblocking or double switching into your spinner. I would rather have my scarfer able to get 5 switches rather than get the ohko on an unharmed mew, it should be an option.
 
And 401 makes you miss...what kills exactly? Celebi and shaymin will take massive damage from v-generate so you wouldn't need to death gambit them. I could see it being useful to take down mew or tangrowth, but a layer of rocks will ensure the ohko on those two anyway. Assuming that you can spin rocks is also not a great thing to count on, as there are lots of ways in which your opponent can keep the rocks up such as by spinblocking or double switching into your spinner. I would rather have my scarfer able to get 5 switches rather than get the ohko on an unharmed mew, it should be an option.
Hmm... You do miss on a healthy Careful Tyranitar (my personal favorite set this generation, and my answer to Victini), who kills the sun, actually isn't cleanly 2HKO'd by a CB Adamant Max Attack V-Create unless you have hazards, and retaliates with one of his STABs. Then again, the analysis did mention that you should be avoiding him. Still, Victini's other attacks aren't gonna be doing a lot of damage with a Jolly nature, 4 Attack EVs, and no boosting item (same Tar isn't 5HKOd), so I really don't think this Scarf Victini is worth much late-game that you'll preserve him for one more switch at the cost of losing those easy early KOs. I'll let SJCrew think about this one, though, as I have much less experience with this Victini set than he does. He himself stated that Scarf Victini is meh, but we'll see.
 

Users Who Are Viewing This Thread (Users: 1, Guests: 0)

Top