Wi-Fi Offensive Sand RMT

[Tase]

As the title indicates, I play Wi-Fi, but I have been using Pokemon Online to test this team. (Note: That means I don't care about Rotom Forms, nor do I intend to use them) So far, it's been pretty successful, but there are a few areas where I could improve, so I wanted more opinions.

Team Overview:

@ Choice Band
Trait: Sand Stream
EVs: 252 HP / 124 Atk / 132 Def
Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
- Stealth Rock
- Earthquake
- Ice Fang
- Crunch

Kind of an odd lead, but obviously it gets sand set up right off the bat, and handles a number of leads by surprising them with its damaging power. This used to be a typical walling Hippowdon, but it didn't ever accomplish much of anything. With Choice Band, I get the surprise factor on leads like Aerodactyl and Azelf, who don't expect me to OHKO (Crunch always OHKO's Azelf, Ice Fang has a high chance of OHKOing Aerodactyl) as well as other miscellaneous threats. However, if it's facing a lead that I'm not feeling threatened by (say, Machamp), I'll go ahead and put up rocks instead of attacking.

@ Leftovers
Trait: Natural Cure
EVs: 236 HP / 240 Def / 32 Spd
Bold Nature (+Def, -Atk)
- Grass Knot
- Thunder Wave
- Rest
- Hidden Power [Ice]

Used to be a Resttalk Cresselia, but I found that Celebi cured my Gyarados and Swampert issues. All of it is a basic defensive set, except I prefer Rest since I can fully heal off any damage and status, then switch out and be ready for the next time I need to switch Celebi in. Hidden Power Ice handles dragons, Thunder Wave cripples things that the rest of my team can't handle basically. Celebi is my answer to Gyarados, who so far hasn't given me problems since adding it to my team.

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@ Life Orb
Trait: Natural Cure
EVs: 232 HP / 244 SpAtk / 32 Spd
Modest Nature (+SAtk, -Atk)
- Grass Knot/Leaf Storm
- Thunder Wave
- Rest
- Hidden Power [Fire]/Psychic/U-turn

Considering a more offensive set, but maybe not use Life Orb so I don't have to worry too much about accumulating sand+LO damage? Not sure about the fourth move slot either, or if I should change from the defensive set at all even.

or Celebi may become the Roserade mentioned here

@ Choice Scarf
Trait: Flash Fire
EVs: 4 Atk / 252 Spd / 252 SAtk
Naive Nature (+Spd, -SDef)
- Earth Power
- Explosion
- Overheat
- Dragon Pulse

I honestly don't even like Heatran without a scarf. I opt for Overheat over Fire Blast since the latter always seems to miss, and this Heatran is meant to be a hit-and-runner anyway; it doesn't stay out long. Obviously the speed this thing makes it the team's primary revenge killer. I'm not a big fan of EVing for speed ties, so depending on what kind of advice I get, I may tweak them a bit. Maybe suggestions for a different HP if you think it's necessary, but so far Grass has been working for me... (Will put HP Electric on Heatran if Roserade is implemented on the team)

@ Leftovers
Trait: Torrent
EVs: 236 HP / 56 Def / 216 SDef
Careful Nature (+SDef, -SAtk)
- Curse
- Earthquake
- Avalanche
- Rest

Current replacement for Flygon. It's in testing, and I actually am missing Flygon a lot, but Swampert has been doing well and can stop SD Infernape. Is Rest really worth it without Sleep Talk? Because instead I'm thinking I might want to put Waterfall on there for added coverage and potential Torrent abuse.

@ Leftovers
Trait: Serene Grace
EVs: 80 HP / 176 Spd / 252 SAtk
Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
- Hidden Power [Ground]
- Calm Mind
- Psychic
- Thunderbolt

Used to be SubCM, but I've found that the added moveset helps me out noticeably with coverage. Sometimes I send this in to make people think I have Scarf Iron Head, and start setting up Calm Mind. That's pretty much its role, switch in when it's safe, and attempt a Calm Mind sweep. I guess this is the best answer my team has for Starmie right now. I've gotten a couple suggestions to try Grass Knot over Thunderbolt for Swampert, but since Celebi is there, and I still need an answer for Starmie, Thunderbolt stays for now unless someone convinces me otherwise.

@ Petaya Berry
Trait: Torrent
EVs: 24 Def / 252 SpA / 232 Spe
Modest Nature (+SAtk, -Atk)
- Substitute
- Surf
- Ice Beam
- Agility

This is the star of the team, so I usually save it for late game, trying to clear out threats to Empoleon before bringing it out. After paralysis support from Celebi, Empoleon laughs at DD Kingdra, who used to give the team problems, and set up on it. Assuming I have a chance to use Agility, it doesn't fear Scizor either. Offensive Suicune is a potential replacement for Empoleon in the future, but in testing, I've found it's not as reliable as Empoleon. It also is 2HKO'd by Kingdra's Outrage before a single Dragon Dance. Therefore, for now, Empoleon stays.


Threats: Just listing the major ones I can think of. Obviously there are more, but if they're not here, I've either forgotten them, or my team already handles them well enough.

I actually haven't faced a single Blissey during my testing, but I forsee problems with it. Flygon's Earthquake is only a 3HKO. After Stealth Rock support, Heatran's Explosion has a chance to OHKO (83.2% - 97.9%). That's about it. (Considering switching Subpetaya Empoleon for an SD/Priority one, but so far I'd rather not if there's an easier solution)

Heatran can revenge kill them after Sand/Rocks/Life Orb support. Other than that, CMrachi is the best answer I have for it. Life Orb Starmie's Surf is a 2HKO, while Jirachi can Calm Mind on the first turn and KO with Thunderbolt on the second.

Nasty Plot/Vacuum Wave variants will be an issue (others are handled easily by Heatran)... With Swampert replacing Flygon on the team, Mixape becomes a threat.

 

[muffinhead]

OH MY LORD THIS TEAM IS SEXY may i ask who helped you make this team? because they must be damn sexy too. anyways, i dont like apostrophes or my shift button today, so there will not be correct grammar/ whatever. anyways, ive seen a few more problems with the team just now.

Agility Lucario will give you lots of trouble is hippo and celebi are out/weakened. be sure to scout for this with flygon or whatever to make sure that it isnt a problem. that being said, SD lucario is also a threat because it can KO flygon with a +2 Extremespeed. However it is rare that celebi and hippo will go down before lucario comes out, and even then you have a chance with jirachi.

Onto jirachi, swampert could be a problem IF celebi is out. for this you might want to consider using grass knot / hp ground / cm / thunderbolt. it gives good coverage and only breloom can come in easily. psychic could be used over thunderbolt, but then gyarados might prove a bit problematic if celebi is out (again, worst case scenario). for this you should think about putting thunderpunch on flygon > fire blast and changing to a jolly nature. skarm and forretress are handled by heatran rather well.

fuck..... i was going to say something else.... i hate it when that happens. it mightve been kingdra or dragonite or gyarados with dragon dances..... SNDAGUHSAGD. epic team right here, if you feel like stealth rock isnt get up as often as you want you could use a LO heatran with stealth rock > hp grass/ earth power and just explode on stuff you dont like. right now this team looks very solid, great synergy with celetran. fantastic scouter, rock resists, solid walls, and good offense too.

to review:
GK on jirachi
Tpunch and jolly on Flygon
Stealth Rock and LO on Heatran (up to you)

i really like this team and look forward to playing it in the future:D GL HF

 

[tab]

Hey, I'll quickly summarise what I said on IRC for you.

First things first, I'm not really a fan of your hippo, but I guess it's OK if it's working for you. The main problem here is that your team's really lacking a bit of focus - Jirachi and Empoleon aren't supported particularly well, and Celebi has the look of a pokemon that's thrown in as a bit of a band aid.
Going with an offensive Suicune with Calm Mind/Ice Beam/HP Electric/Surf over Empoleon should be a pretty big step in the right direction, taking a lot of burden away from Heatran, as well as a better check for some of the pokemon you could struggle with. Without a team focused on supporting Empoleon, it's just as good a sweeper, and you'll find that it's a lot more reliable.

With Suicune giving you a bulky water, you're free to use something a bit more adventurous as your grass type - Tinkerbell Celebi and Offensive Shaymin - either with Leftovers and Leech Seed or Life Orb and Rest - both fit the bill nicely, I'll let you see which you like the look of.

Heatran needs to be using Dragon Pulse over HP Grass, so that you have a better way of checking DDNite/Kingdra, as well as MixNite/MixGon. I'd also suggest going back to Roost on Flygon, as with its typing, it's going to be one of the most important members of your team in helping you play around threats, and it's not like you can really afford to make good use of U-turn on a LO Flygon.

Finally, as I said, Jirachi doesn't really fit in. There's a couple of ways you could go with changing that - you could either try a MixRachi along the lines of Iron Head/Fire Punch/Thunderbolt/Toxic, or you could try a different pokemon alltogether. Currently, you're relying heaving on Heatran to deal with Gengar and Starmie in particular, mostly due to your teams lack of speed, so something like a LO Aerodactly with Taunt/Roost/Earthquake/Stone Edge should work pretty well. There's plenty of pokemon that could fit in, so I'd recommend experimenting and seeing what you come up with if you don't like the sound of either of those suggestions.

Good luck!

BLOO 9.9​

 

[Tase]

snip

Thanks so much for the rate!

(you too muffinhead, but you've been helping me all along, lol)

 

[Uncommon Madness]

Even if you follow Tab's suggestions you still have an immense weakness to SD Infernape (which is getting more popular these days).
What about using a CursePert instead of a Flygon? He can absorb electric and (most) ground moves while having a great synergy with Sandstorm.
You should also note that Celebi + Heatran + Swampert combination is very effective as it packs resistances to all seventeen attacking types in the game
(thanks to the Fire + Water + Grass core).

 

[Tase]

Here's a bump, Swampert has replaced Flygon to pretty good success, I gave Suicune a try but upon testing the waters with it a bit, I didn't like it much on this team for a number of reasons (vulnerability in sand, inferior typing and vulnerability to Toxic Spikes, harder to set up than Empoleon, easily 2hko'd, etc.)

Heatran now carries Dragon Pulse, but when most of the time I'm facing Waterfall/DD Kingdras and Earthquake/DDnites, I haven't found it particularly useful. It can stay as Dragon Pulse for now since most of the time I'm not in a situation where using that fourth move slot is all that beneficial.

Since I still like the Celetran + Swampert synergy, I will probably keep Celebi on there and try out a Tinkerbell set... Twave/Leaf Storm/Rest/something. Suggestions on what would work best in the fourth move slot for my team would be helpful.

I actually like my Jirachi the way it is for right now, because with no one expecting Calm Mind anymore it's pretty easy to set up and take out at least a few of the opponent's pokemon.

But perhaps suggestions for team support, or pointing out mons that could give me trouble... for instance, with Scarftran out, I'm worried Mixape could quickly become an issue. Blissey is still an issue unless I can get Heatran out and explode on her.

 

[Faladran]

Hello,

Since Empoleon functions best with Toxic Spikes support, I'd like to recommend trying out a Roserade in Celebi's spot:

Roserade @ Leftovers
Ability: Natural Cure
EVs: 252 HP / 120 Def / 136 SpD
Calm nature (+SpD, -Atk)
- Toxic Spikes
- Rest
- Energy Ball
- Hidden Power Ice

This will allow you to set up on several special attackers and Water-types and support Empoleon's sweep. Hidden Power Ice is for preventing Dragonite from setting up on you, and is also useful for hitting Zapdos.

Since this opens you up a bit more to opposing Gyarados, you could try out Hidden Power Electric over either Dragon Pulse or Earth Power on Heatran, depending on whichever move you find less useful.

I also agree with adding in Waterfall over Rest on Swampert, as the extra coverage provided by a Water-type attack is quite useful.

Good luck with your team!

 

[Tase]

Hello,

Since Empoleon functions best with Toxic Spikes support, I'd like to recommend trying out a Roserade in Celebi's spot:

Roserade @ Leftovers
Ability: Natural Cure
EVs: 252 HP / 120 Def / 136 SpD
Calm nature (+SpD, -Atk)
- Toxic Spikes
- Rest
- Energy Ball
- Hidden Power Ice

This will allow you to set up on several special attackers and Water-types and support Empoleon's sweep. Hidden Power Ice is for preventing Dragonite from setting up on you, and is also useful for hitting Zapdos.

Since this opens you up a bit more to opposing Gyarados, you could try out Hidden Power Electric over either Dragon Pulse or Earth Power on Heatran, depending on whichever move you find less useful.

I also agree with adding in Waterfall over Rest on Swampert, as the extra coverage provided by a Water-type attack is quite useful.

Good luck with your team!

I really like this idea, my only worry being I have no spinblocker. But I'll give it a try and see how I like it. Thanks!

 

[Super Mario Bro]

@ Faladran:

Ros over Celebi makes him Breloom weak. X_X
---
This team is extremely weak to Nasty Plot Ape. If it has the moveset of Nasty Plot, Flamethrower, Grass Knot, and Vacuum Wave, this team is easily 6-0'd. Currently, it is able to set up on Hippo's Ice Fang, Stealth Rock, Crunch, or on Heatran after it has used Overheat once.

Also, this team is rather helpless against LO Gyarados that have Bounce. You have nothing that can stop it other than hoping it is Adamant, in which case Heatran explodes on it.

Finally, this team is weak to Vaporeon. Absolutely nothing on this team can scratch it other than Jirachi who can be pHazed out.

A simple way to fix your issues with all of these Pokemon is a Scarf Rotom-W. Rotom also gives you a spinblocker.

Rotom-W @ Choice Scarf
Timid
EVs: 4 HP/252 SpA/252 Spe
-Thunderbolt
-Hydro Pump
-Shadow Ball
-Trick

Place it over Heatran.

Good luck!

 

[Tase]

@ Faladran:

Ros over Celebi makes him Breloom weak. X_X
---
This team is extremely weak to Nasty Plot Ape. If it has the moveset of Nasty Plot, Flamethrower, Grass Knot, and Vacuum Wave, this team is easily 6-0'd. Currently, it is able to set up on Hippo's Ice Fang, Stealth Rock, Crunch, or on Heatran after it has used Overheat once.

Also, this team is rather helpless against LO Gyarados that have Bounce. You have nothing that can stop it other than hoping it is Adamant, in which case Heatran explodes on it.

Finally, this team is weak to Vaporeon. Absolutely nothing on this team can scratch it other than Jirachi who can be pHazed out.

A simple way to fix your issues with all of these Pokemon is a Scarf Rotom-W. Rotom also gives you a spinblocker.

Rotom-W @ Choice Scarf
Timid
EVs: 4 HP/252 SpA/252 Spe
-Thunderbolt
-Hydro Pump
-Shadow Ball
-Trick

Place it over Heatran.

Good luck!

You obviously didn't read the top of the first post, or the end of the first post since I already acknowledged it's NP Ape weak. :\ I'll point you toward it:

As the title indicates, I play Wi-Fi, but I have been using Pokemon Online to test this team. (Note: That means I don't care about Rotom Forms, nor do I intend to use them)

 

[Super Mario Bro]

Well, uh, Rotom would have been perfect for that slot. Darn!

Another option for a revenge killer is a Specs Jolteon over Heatran, who deals with Gyarados (Adamant versions), Vaporeon, and Nasty Plot Infernape rather well.

Jolteon @ Choice Specs
Timid
EVs: 252 SpA/4 SpD/252 Spe
-Thunderbolt
-Shadow Ball
-HP Ice
-Baton Pass

Now, you should place Perish Song on Celebi over Thunder Wave to give your team a win condition against last Pokemon stat-uppers like Snorlax.