Ubers Xerneas QC:(3/3) GP: (4/4)

[MMII]

Everything is clean (just implement the stuff about CM that we talked about on IRC)

QC Approved 1/3

 

[Disaster Area]

Yes polop you're conquering the mountain of controversial analyses.

*claps and cheers*

Also I missed any mention - did the phys def CM set work?

 

[polop]

Phys Def CM works, but I mentioned a spread like that in SD b/c its really situational.

ChestoRest CM Xern + RestTalk CM Xern reallocated to OO.

Physically Defensive spread in SD.

I'm pretty sure those were the changes you talked about.

Thanks for the QC stamp mm2.

 

[Blue Jay]

I feel Geomancy Xerneas should be the first set and know that Hack He Must agrees. It may not be the objectively best set and has obvious flaws that we are all aware of, but nonetheless it has enormous sweeping potential and is the set that pushes it from a solid Pokemon in the metagame to one of the first and foremost threats to have a specified check (or more) for when teambuilding. A healthy emphasis on its shortcomings should help to rein in the hype, but it really is too prevalent and potentially dangerous to place anywhere else.

 

[MMII]

Phys Def CM works, but I mentioned a spread like that in SD b/c its really situational.

ChestoRest CM Xern + RestTalk CM Xern reallocated to OO.

Physically Defensive spread in SD.

I'm pretty sure those were the changes you talked about.

Thanks for the QC stamp mm2.

Yeah and something about CM LO just being a set detail mention for the all out set since it's pretty much the same thing just that you drop a coverage move for a boosting one.


I liked the original set order but we can talk about it on IRC. (its just easier to do back and forths than on the forums)

 

[MMII]

Okay, go ahead and bump geo up to first set.

 

[polop]

Yeah and something about CM LO just being a set detail mention for the all out set since it's pretty much the same thing just that you drop a coverage move for a boosting one.

Life Orb is now not slashed and just mentioned in SD.

Geomancy is now Xern's first set.

 

[Sweep]

You mentioned HP Fire on the Geomancy set and on other options :p. I would keep it OO as Focus Blast does the same amount of damage to Bronzong and Scizor will pick you off anyway (unless your opponent let you set up for free).

If Chansey is perfectly preserved, a Bold Chansey actually has ~50% chance to avoid a 2HKO from a +2 Psyshock and can either Thunder Wave it or have a chance to do some Toxic stalling. It's hardly a reliable answer for it though, especially if Stealth Rock is up. Speaking of Pink Blobs, I feel that Substitute is worth a mention on the Geomancy set, though I would not personally give it a slash though. Because Seismic Toss and Night Shade cannot break Xerneas's Substitutes, you can use the blobs as set-up bait. Suppose that Chansey switches in after you Geomancy. They will likely try to status you instead of attacking, so you can use Substitute and get another Geomancy off as they spend two turns attempting to break your Substitute. You'd use this with Geomancy, Moonblast and Thunder to lessen the number of Pokemon that completely wall you (though Ferrothorn says hi). Admittedly blobs are not as viable anymore because MegaGengar is a thing, but Substitute has some other utility too, like stopping Thundurus from stopping your sweep with priority Thunder Wave. The lack of additional coverage and the situational nature of the move make Substitute a flawed option, but it's still very viable.

For the all-out attacker, the given EV spread does not OHKO Blissey with Expert Belt, though it can do massive damage. Be sure to change that.

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4 Atk Expert Belt Xerneas Close Combat vs. 0 HP / 252 Def Blissey: 518-612 (79.5 - 94%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

You can OHKO standard Blissey with 124 Attack EV's after Stealth Rock 100% of the time, though Bold Blissey will still withstand your assault. Likewise, 140 Attack EV's allow you to always 3HKO Aegislash with Night Slash + Expert Belt, nonwithstanding King's Shield spam admittedly. 140 over 124 attack EV's give you an 81% chance to OHKO Ho-Oh with Rock Slide as opposed to 69% chance. These calcs are not wildly important or anything, just suggesting that you can mention an alternative Expert Belt spread with 140 Attack EV's in Set Details if you'd like.

I wouldn't slash Thunder on the Scarf set as it's inaccurate and Rock Slide hits Ho-Oh much harder, but it does hit Lugia and guarantee's the 2HKO on offensive Kyogre. I feel that having a Sleep Absorber or a guaranteed 2HKO on max HP Ho-Oh is more important than what Thunder has to offer. Thunder still deserves a strong mention, I just don't know if it's worth the slash. Other QC can chime in here!

Hide

Scarf Thunder vs. Ho-Oh: 180 SpA Xerneas Thunder vs. 248 HP / 0 SpD Ho-Oh: 158-188 (38 - 45.3%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery You don't win without SR even if you predict right.

 

[Manaphy]

I'm agree with sweep on Thunder here, it's inaccurate, worse than Rock Slide vs Ho-Oh, and barely out damages Moonblast on Lugia and Kyogre. I don't see much use in it on a Scarf set.

 

[Fireburn]

I'm agree with sweep on Thunder here, it's inaccurate, worse than Rock Slide vs Ho-Oh, and barely out damages Moonblast on Lugia and Kyogre. I don't see much use in it on a Scarf set.

Thirding this.

 

[polop]

Ok so I'll remove Thunder from Choice Scarf (not slashed but mentioned in moves).

I thought I got rid of HP fire in Geomancy's moves ;_;, its done now.

140 Atk / 184 SpA / 186 Spe spread mentioned in all-out if you use ebelt (outspeed base 90s + gets that KO sweep was talkin about + makes moon strong).

Substitute is now mentioned in the Moves of Geomancy, but is not slashed.

Thanks for the input guys.

 

[Hack]

186 isn't divisible by 4 though, so it should be 184, just a reminder!

 

[polop]

Oh my bad Hack He Must

The SD spread in set details specifically for Expert belt now is 140 atk / 184 SpA / 184 Spe

 

[Fireburn]

Mention priority as a check to Geomancy i.e. Arceus-Normal, Mega Kangaskhan, Rayquaza, etc.

QC Approved 2/3

 

[polop]

Mentioned Priority in skelly.

Thanks for the check Fireburn

I'll try to write this up quickly but since its super long it maaaay take sometime.

 

[MMII]

Um can you mention CM and Toxic in the defensive set real quick? Don't have to slash it, though. (also looks kinda odd that the first move is slashed but the others aren't, I'd move that slot down to the last slot but I know you like aromatherapy)

 

[Micket]

I feel like the overview should further mention just how overcentralising Xerneas is to the meta, because of the sheer power of Geomancy, despite it being a set that is easily countered.

 

[Swamp-Rocket]

Maybe this is just me but looking at the overview alone it looks like a huge list of flaws Xerneas has (and if there is a good thing it is undermined by a flaw). Not gonna lie, after reading it I felt like Xerneas is hardly worth using.

Like, I'm going to bold everywhere it points out a flaw just to put in in perspective...

Xerneas is a rather strange pokemon. Blessed with a great ability, wonderful stats, setup moves in Geomancy and Calm Mind, a fabulous typing, and an above average speed tier, Xerneas has the traits needed to become a top-notch threat. It is not however, without its flaws. While its base speed stat is higher then that of most ubers like Dialga and Kyogre, it simply isn't high enough to let it freely sweep. Its base special attack is high, but compared to other Ubers its somewhat underwhelming, and results in Xerneas relying mostly on its ability, Fairy Aura, to make up for its somewhat weak strength. While its typing does provide it an immunity to Dragon-type attacks, giving it the ability to setup moves easily, it does make Xerneas weak to poison-types, thus making it possible for Mega Gengar to trap and destroy Xerneas if given the chance. Its movepool is another issue. Its diverse yet limited. For reference, while Xerneas does receive two potent setup moves, it does not bear the special coverage needed to sweep teams reliably. In fact, Xerneas is one of the few Ubers that cannot rewrite its counter list by completely switching to another set; its utter lack of coverage makes it walled by the same things, making it very difficult for Xerneas to sweep an enemy team, unless given great amounts of team support. It even lacks reliable recovery outside of Rest, making it very difficult for Xerneas to weaken and outlast its counters. The rest of its movepool is quite diverse though. Bearing physical coverage in Close Combat and Megahorn along with moves to support the team like Aromatherapy, allows Xerneas to run a very wide range of sets effectively. All-in-all, Xerneas is no one-trick pony. What it lacks for in its stats and movepool is easily made up for with its typing, ability, and its sheer versatility.

I may not play that much Ubers, but Xerneas is A+ in viability, meaning it is a very dangerous threat, and I don't think saying it is a top-notch threat was enough. This did not give the impression of it being a very dangerous threat. A lot of the problem in my eyes is that if something about Xerneas is good you either don't really explain it or go really in depth about a problem it has. For instance, you talk about it being immune to Dragon (several Uber Pokemon) and then spend longer talking about it getting trapped by 1 Pokemon which loses to Geomancy with Psyshock anyway. You talk about its movepool being good and then emphasize what it is missing. For example, would Xerneas truly have the space for instant recovery, which requires it to give up a moveslot on the coverage you already mentioned is limited (aside from defensive which seems rare)? Also, you say it cannot rewrite its counter list completely by switching to another set, when 1) you say in C&C it all depends on the set and give exactly one Pokemon to check all sets and 2) how many Pokemon actually can do this? Arceus, Kyogre, Groudon and many more have the same exact problem.

QC can disagree with me but I don't think the overview gives an accurate representation of Xerneas in the metagame.

 

[Blue Jay]

Swamp-Rocket has an excellent point. The analysis should not overhype Xerneas to be the god-tier Pokemon some make it out to be, but nor should it do the opposite. Really, the overview should accurately reflect Xerneas' potency and versatility - both quite substantial - with descriptions of its favourable qualities and a brief outline of its flaws. Not even the analyses of borderline viable Pokemon such as Gastrodon or Arceus formes that should virtually never be used for their inferiority do not receive such extensive analysis of their shortcomings. A lot of these should become apparent through the Checks & Counters section, as well as other parts of the analysis, so there is no reason to discourage readers from using Xerneas at all upon reading the overview.

 

[Unowninator]

As a plus it also neutrally hits Steel-types that resist Judgment, whacking Pokemon like Heatran, Scizor, Bronzong, and Aegislash

Uh...

 

[polop]

I fixed the judgment mistake, it was supposed to be moonblast o_O.

I changed the overview so that it provides a more positive description of Xerneas, wasn't intentionally trying to make it look like it sucked honest ;_;.

Still working on writing this up because you know... this thing is huge.

 

[polop]

Ok this thing is written, wooooot. By far largest analysis I've ever written.

Bump because ready for third QC check.

 

[shrang]

Couple of things:

1) Mention HP Fire in the Geomancy set in the same paragraph you mention Substitute. It's a bit less useful than the others, but at least it OHKOes Scizor and it can hit Aegislash without having 70% accuracy.

2)

A spread of 70 Atk / 252 SpA / 184 Spd gives up Xerneas's ability to speed tie with opposing Yveltal and Genesect in exchange for a slightly more powerful Close Combat and Rock Slide.

- You're missing 2 EVs there
- What does this spread accomplish? What 2/OHKOes does it get Xerneas that 4 Atk doesn't? If it doesn't achieve anything significant, remove the mention of this spread. If it does, make sure you put it in

3) Mention Choice Specs in OO just because it's cool.

Other than these, qc approved 3/3

 

[MMII]

It lacks reliable recovery outside of Rest, making it very difficult for Xerneas to run defensive sets and outlast its counters.

Honestly, in a status heavy metagame Resttalk is one of the better recoveries available. The new sleep mechanics means that Xern doesn't really have that much trouble outlasting the things it's meant to check. Only downfall is that you can't spam it to stall out attacks that nearly 2HKO but not many attacks nearly 2HKO bulky Xern. :o I get what you were trying to say but it bothers me when you say it's very difficult to run defensive sets when it's one of the things Xerneas excels at.

after Geomancy essentially OHKOes anything that fails to resist it or is not named Chansey or Blissey... Thunder nails Ho-Oh and Lugia... also dealing solid damage to Specially Defensive Kyogre

So much for only the blobs dodging a OHKO without a resist. :p

It can also weaken Aegislash lacking Shadow Sneak

Aegislash dodges Shadow Tag. Also, it's worth mentioning how the threat of GeoXern makes pursuit trapping Gengar with Scizor less appealing as you lose your check to it.

Yveltal can also defeat ... Specially Defensive Kyogre, and ...

I dislike the way this is worded because Yveltal loses to Sp Def Kyogre (Foul Play won't 2HKO if min attack IVs plus most use Sucker so 50/50 fun times) It's good at pressuring it, though, so Xerneas can beat it.

I dislike the mention of Tailwind ZEk setting up on Scizor. Scizor is likely going to be picking Xern off with prio and they mostly run physical defense investment so Zek can't really setup on them. Choice Band Sciz is fodder though.

As a plus, Xerneas's offensive presence helps it get free turns to use Aromatherapy, which is something no other cleric can do.

Shaymin-S !!!!

Mention CM in the All Out set, too.

Mega Gengar can do a similar job to Scizor, trapping Lugia, Heatran, and Chansey and defeating them with Taunt and Shadow Ball.

How are those guys problems for LO Xerneas? Also what is ygod for? it just punishes Aegislash (which is nice but not what it seemed like you were saying in the writeup)

Something that can provide Stealth Rock is good for Xerneas too, as Stealth Rock can damage Pokemon when Xerneas forces switches.

Take his out if you don't have any specific examples to mention (a good one is for Ho-Oh if opting for Thunder)

I guess I never brought it up before but does Scarf Xern really want to take from Spatk and not speed? Not sure it's going to face much speed ties at it's speed tier so might just be worth having enough to outspeed Kyogre/Zekrom and maximize SpAtk.

Imo, Zen is better than Psycho cut on MMX. Not massive but more relevant for your example in scarf usage :p.

I still bothers me on the defensive set that the slashed moves are given the first slot and not the last. Not sure if I brought that up already though.

Mention Calm Mind in the moves section for defensive.

Also mention how defensive Xern is really useful at absorbing status since resttalk plus great general bulk.

I fell like you are kinda harsh when you compare Xern to the other bulky fairies. TBH, Xern is the best Bulky Fairy because it can use Roar which is huge on a mon with multiple common resists to its STAB move. It also has the best chance against mega Gengar and can heal off status more often cause Rest has a lot more PP than Heal Bell.

Um I guess nevermind about mentioning CM on the All Out set since it looks like you merged it with the Sub CM set.

Okay, fix up your Checks and Counters section. It needs to be a list of individual mons like Manaphy did in his Darkrai analysis. You can use groups for very closely related mons like Sylveon and Defensive Xerneas but otherwise each mon gets its own bullet. Don't move this to GP until that is done.

Edit: Give defensive Xerneas 248 HP evs, max means it takes extra damage from SR.

 

[polop]

1) Mention HP Fire in the Geomancy set in the same paragraph you mention Substitute. It's a bit less useful than the others, but at least it OHKOes Scizor and it can hit Aegislash without having 70% accuracy

This was actually where it originally was, but after discussion with manaphy we kind of agreed to relegate it to OO. I'll move it back to moves.

- You're missing 2 EVs there
- What does this spread accomplish? What 2/OHKOes does it get Xerneas that 4 Atk doesn't? If it doesn't achieve anything significant, remove the mention of this spread. If it does, make sure you put it in

If Xerneas uses Expert Belt it dramatically increases the chances of Rock Slide OHKOing. Also increases Life Orb's chance of OHKOing 252 HP Ho-Oh by a lot too (jumps from 60->80%ish)

Added Specs to OO.

Honestly, in a status heavy metagame Resttalk is one of the better recoveries available. The new sleep mechanics means that Xern doesn't really have that much trouble outlasting the things it's meant to check. Only downfall is that you can't spam it to stall out attacks that nearly 2HKO but not many attacks nearly 2HKO bulky Xern. :o I get what you were trying to say but it bothers me when you say it's very difficult to run defensive sets when it's one of the things Xerneas excels at.

Really. Sylveon runs Wish + Protect > Rest + Sleep Talk, and yes it gets Aromatherapy. Recover or Moonlight / Aroma is essentially 100% better then Rest Talk with Aroma (physically defensive Xerneas now beats Choice Band Ho-Oh I mean wth) and would be great but it doesn't get it. Also no Recover or Moonlight somewhat limits offensive sets because you have difficulty outlasting counters.

So much for only the blobs dodging a OHKO without a resist. :p

MY BAD. But really Lugia only lives if Multiscale is up but erm Specially Defensive Kyogre uhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh. I'll remove mention.

I dislike the way this is worded because Yveltal loses to Sp Def Kyogre (Foul Play won't 2HKO if min attack IVs plus most use Sucker so 50/50 fun times) It's good at pressuring it, though, so Xerneas can beat it.

I dislike the mention of Tailwind ZEk setting up on Scizor. Scizor is likely going to be picking Xern off with prio and they mostly run physical defense investment so Zek can't really setup on them. Choice Band Sciz is fodder though.

Scizor will be weakened and Life Orbed BS 2HKOes. If someone's using a hipster Physically Defensive Scizor they take even more damage from +2 Focus Blast.

Removed Yveltal beating Sdef Ogre though.

Shaymin-S !!!!

Mention CM in the All Out set, too.

Skymin has never been considered as an aromatherapy user due to its lack of bulk, which is a key feature in clerics.

I'm really hesitant on mentinoing Skymin.

All types of the CM sets are in the AC / SD / Moves / that sort of thing in CM.

How are those guys problems for LO Xerneas? Also what is ygod for? it just punishes Aegislash (which is nice but not what it seemed like you were saying in the writeup)

I'll remove Chansey and tranner (idea was if Focus Miss Mega Gengar covers Chansey, if Close Combat Mega Gengar covers Heatran). Your not strong enough to punch through Lugia.

Take his out if you don't have any specific examples to mention (a good one is for Ho-Oh if opting for Thunder)

I guess I never brought it up before but does Scarf Xern really want to take from Spatk and not speed? Not sure it's going to face much speed ties at it's speed tier so might just be worth having enough to outspeed Kyogre/Zekrom and maximize SpAtk.

Imo, Zen is better than Psycho cut on MMX. Not massive but more relevant for your example in scarf usage :p.

I still bothers me on the defensive set that the slashed moves are given the first slot and not the last. Not sure if I brought that up already though.

Mention Calm Mind in the moves section for defensive.

Also mention how defensive Xern is really useful at absorbing status since resttalk plus great general bulk.

I fell like you are kinda harsh when you compare Xern to the other bulky fairies. TBH, Xern is the best Bulky Fairy because it can use Roar which is huge on a mon with multiple common resists to its STAB move. It also has the best chance against mega Gengar and can heal off status more often cause Rest has a lot more PP than Heal Bell.

Um I guess nevermind about mentioning CM on the All Out set since it looks like you merged it with the Sub CM set.

Okay, fix up your Checks and Counters section. It needs to be a list of individual mons like Manaphy did in his Darkrai analysis. You can use groups for very closely related mons like Sylveon and Defensive Xerneas but otherwise each mon gets its own bullet. Don't move this to GP until that is done.

Edit: Give defensive Xerneas 248 HP evs, max means it takes extra damage from SR.

There's quite literally too many examples of SR impacting Xerneas. It helps against Lugia b/c mscale.

I think its better to mention taking from Speed in SD because Xerneas's cleaning capabilities might help it if it can outspeed some pesky random base 90 scarf mons.

I'll use Zen > Psycho Cut for that mention.

I'll change 252 -> 248 HP EVs.

I'll go ahead and mention Roar giving it the edge over other bulky fairies for Defensive Xerneas. Clefable can beat Mega Gengar tho if it wants to by running Knock Off. Sylveon can annoy with Yawn / Baton Pass.

I'll make sure every mon gets its own Bullet Point but I thought clustering in to groups in that fashion was fine. Changed.