BH Balanced Hackmons

[Champion Leon]

Clearly you've never watched one of the high ladder stall matches where nobody dies for the first hundred turns. If your only way to stop imposter is to PP stall it without trapping it first, it can just PP stall you in return, since its PP can be replenished repeatedly but you don't even have enough PP to stall it the second time it comes in.

I've played a few matches with stall, and have played over 133 turns as I had the time. Sometimes, however, the other player quits, regardless of who is winning. If I don't have the time, like you know free time, I leave to do other things, like most people.
That wasn't my only way of stopping imposter. I explained that it was just a quick and crazy example to stop it. Please reread the post.

 

[Rumors]

I remember back in the day I played a couple of times Adrian to about turn 200 with no KOs and nobody running low on PP and we ended up agreeing to mutually call it a draw by both DCing the match. Would be a bit harder to do now though since Ability clause keeps one from spamming Regenerator against full stall, but certainly not impossible. I saw a RU match go to turn ~1.3k a couple of months or so ago.

Also, I must be part of the 10%, since my first BH team wasn't a hyper offensive team, but rather a team of six Imposter Blisseys. I never actually intended to seriously play BH, just troll for a day or two.

This was all in relation to just suggesting an alternative to Spore on Mega-Manectric whether it be Lovely Kiss, or Light if Ruin, you asked for a way to counter Imposter, and I replied with a simple quick answer to show that it is easy to handle the Imposter, even a crazy Prankster Electrify Ground type could work.

I then thought, while I'm at it why not let it pivot since it can force it out, and comically enough if Groudon decided to U-Turn out to Mawile, like you suggested just using Spore on Manectric's moveset, while not just Prankster Spore on Mawile? (As long as you go first, why not?)

(I seriously doubt either player would have the patience to make the Imposter Chansey use all 20 pp of the moves copied by Manectric, while being Electrified, as one would either switch or forfeit since there is no Tie/Draw/Stalemate option and games like that just take up endless time).

Nothing wrong with the pivot bit, whether you're going to Mawile or whatever else. Was just saying since Electric/Ice/Fairy/Water coverage is super effective on about 2/3rds of all Pokemon, which, from an anti-impostering perspective, is a bit nuts. The Groudon would work, but I'm not sure it'd have much utility beyond checking Imposter Manectric outside of annoying an opponent and predicting the right turn to pivot.

And for the patience bit, I certainly would so long as I determined doing so would give me the advantage.

 

[Champion Leon]

I remember back in the day I played a couple of times Adrian to about turn 200 with no KOs and nobody running low on PP and we ended up agreeing to mutually call it a draw by both DCing the match. Would be a bit harder to do now though since Ability clause keeps one from spamming Regenerator against full stall, but certainly not impossible. I saw a RU match go to turn ~1.3k a couple of months or so ago.

Also, I must be part of the 10%, since my first BH team wasn't a hyper offensive team, but rather a team of six Imposter Blisseys. I never actually intended to seriously play BH, just troll for a day or two.




Nothing wrong with the pivot bit, whether you're going to Mawile or whatever else. Was just saying since Electric/Ice/Fairy/Water coverage is super effective on about 2/3rds of all Pokemon, which, from an anti-impostering perspective, is a bit nuts. The Groudon would work, but I'm not sure it'd have much utility beyond checking Imposter Manectric outside of annoying an opponent and predicting the right turn to pivot.

And for the patience bit, I certainly would so long as I determined doing so would give me the advantage.

That's great. It doesn't even have to be a dedicated Prankster Electrify Groubd type. It was just the easiest solution. I guess I could list more like Thick Fat Mega Venusaur since it can resist 3/4 moves and is neutral to Ice, but I just didn't want to go too far into random things. Electrify is random enough, and at least Primal-Groudon is the most used BH next to Mega Rayquaza.

Let's also keep in mind, if it is hard to counter the Imposter, that also means Manectric's 4 Attack moveset sounds pretty threatening to the tier. I think your point about it being hard to Imposter proof only strengthens how big of a threat Manectric is in general. While Imposter has Eviolite, and Higher HP, Manectric-Mega packs Life Orb, so it can deal
more damage to your opponents team than Imposter can deal to your team.

Lol, I even had used a troll Scarf Entrainment Normalize Mega-Gengar just for shits and giggles. Now that I think of it, it could counter many things including Manectric Imposter.
If it has Entrainment, Trick, Destiny Bond, Filler it could be that sudden stop to many of your foes threats in general, including Imposter sets without Priority moves.
Instead of wasting a moveslot with Quiver Dance, and a turn, it can come in on faster threats during a pivot and stop say Mewtwo-Y, Depxys-A, etc.
The best part is, if you need to switch it out, any Ghost type can take the foe on.
(Say because you outspeed Mewtwo-Y, they know it must be scarfed, so they keep hitting An attack predicting you will switch out, well, instead of wasting turns reusing entrainment you can switch to another Ghost- which is what you mentioned with Imposter using an attack to wear down The pp of Electrify)

 

[cityscapes]

That's great. It doesn't even have to be a dedicated Prankster Electrify Groubd type. It was just the easiest solution. I guess I could list more like Thick Fat Mega Venusaur since it can resist 3/4 moves and is neutral to Ice, but I just didn't want to go too far into random things. Electrify is random enough, and at least Primal-Groudon is the most used BH next to Mega Rayquaza.

Let's also keep in mind, if it is hard to counter the Imposter, that also means Manectric's 4 Attack moveset sounds pretty threatening to the tier. I think your point about it being hard to Imposter proof only strengthens how big of a threat Manectric is in general. While Imposter has Eviolite, and Higher HP, Manectric-Mega packs Life Orb, so it can deal
more damage to your opponents team than Imposter can deal to your team.

Lol, I even had used a troll Scarf Entrainment Normalize Mega-Gengar just for shits and giggles. Now that I think of it, it could counter many things including Manectric Imposter.
If it has Entrainment, Trick, Destiny Bond, Filler it could be that sudden stop to many of your foes threats in general, including Imposter sets without Priority moves.
Instead of wasting a moveslot with Quiver Dance, and a turn, it can come in on faster threats during a pivot and stop say Mewtwo-Y, Depxys-A, etc.
The best part is, if you need to switch it out, any Ghost type can take the foe on.
(Say because you outspeed Mewtwo-Y, they know it must be scarfed, so they keep hitting An attack predicting you will switch out, well, instead of wasting turns reusing entrainment you can switch to another Ghost- which is what you mentioned with Imposter using an attack to wear down The pp of Electrify)

checks are not counters

counters can just switch in like fur coat giratina can switch into sturdy shed

meanwhile checks win 1v1 but can't switch in

groudon can't switch into steam eruption and prankster electrify is really really bad because it doesn't even do anything. instead run like defensive desolate land which is like 100000x better. for the record manectric is pretty weak anyway so guys like chansey, regenvest bois, steels, and so on can just switch in either way.

scarf entrainment gengar-mega is bad. it gets walled by ghosts/normals depending on move 4, it gets locked into entrainment which is really bad vs offense and defeats the whole purpose of using gengar (because it gets forced out), and it's just so passive like the most damage it can do is with super effective revelation dance or maybe destiny bond something.

as an aside: don't think that i'm trying to hurt you or something with this criticism. just know this: you'll never be respected if you don't listen to anyone. thanks have a good day something something never take ap world history

 

[Rumors]

Let's also keep in mind, if it is hard to counter the Imposter, that also means Manectric's 4 Attack moveset sounds pretty threatening to the tier. I think your point about it being hard to Imposter proof only strengthens how big of a threat Manectric is in general. While Imposter has Eviolite, and Higher HP, Manectric-Mega packs Life Orb, so it can deal
more damage to your opponents team than Imposter can deal to your team.

Its actually pretty easy to build a sweeper with the coverage needed to threaten the majority of the tier. The trick is building one that doesn't nuke your team the moment Imposter touches it AND Imposter-proofing it with something that can function well enough against other threats. The LO vs Eviolite thing though is always the nice bit about Imposters. They rarely have a damage item of their own. (I once had trouble in a low ladder game a year or two ago because the guy was running a Choice Specs and a Choice Band Imposter Chansey.)

Though, mind, all of this is on paper unless you or someone else has run this set before. In-practice is what makes the difference. My Gen V BH and Gen VI BH are full of teams with stuff that worked amazingly on paper but, when put into actual battle, the meta walls were like "...is this supposed to hurt?"

 

[Champion Leon]

checks are not counters

counters can just switch in like fur coat giratina can switch into sturdy shed

meanwhile checks win 1v1 but can't switch in

groudon can't switch into steam eruption and prankster electrify is really really bad because it doesn't even do anything. instead run like defensive desolate land which is like 100000x better. for the record manectric is pretty weak anyway so guys like chansey, regenvest bois, steels, and so on can just switch in either way.

scarf entrainment gengar-mega is bad. it gets walled by ghosts/normals depending on move 4, it gets locked into entrainment which is really bad vs offense and defeats the whole purpose of using gengar (because it gets forced out), and it's just so passive like the most damage it can do is with super effective revelation dance or maybe destiny bond something.

as an aside: don't think that i'm trying to hurt you or something with this criticism. just know this: you'll never be respected if you don't listen to anyone. thanks have a good day something something never take ap world history

I did listen, which is why I responded. Listening doesn't have to always mean agreeing with others. I think by replying to anyone that responds to me, I show that I care enough to hear their point and respond in kind.

If you judge by the details in my post, I go into the other person's point to address their comments with detail, if I didn't listen I wouldn't bother... especially since I type these things from an iPhone, so it's harder and takes longer to copy and paste/type, etc...

I did agree with some points, again you missed the part in my post where I said "troll Scarf Entrainment Normalize Mega-Gengar". A troll set isn't mean to be taken seriously because it is simply a set that annoys opponents by sheer surprise.

Like having a troll Level 1 Sturdy Bulbasaur @ Shell Bell, with Endeavor, Pain Split (For Ghosts), Leech Seed, Toxic, it's meant to just show that unorthodox set can catch an unprepared foe off guard and counter some common sets like a Contrary Mega Mewtwo-X. Spore, Leech Seed and Toxic won't affect it due to typing so it handles common sleep and Magic Bounce, allowing it to be just effective enough to pull off a troll set. (Poison as secondary typing over Steel due to Poison-typing making Toxic 100% accurate, although Steel provides resists to Stealth Rock and Sandstream immunity).

I dont promote level 1 bulbasaur for anyone, just an example of when troll sets are used.
Many people misinterpreted my Groudon, Gengar, etc as me promoting the set for anyone to just slap onto a team, I had to reinstate the context for the discussion. And I agree that a Desolate Land, or even better, a Water Absorb (isn't immediately obvious) set would be better than Prankster Electrify.

I simply, as I first mentioned, said the first quick check I thought of.

Again, it all began regarding subbing in a move over Spore, whether it be Lovely Kiss or Light of Ruin, then it became how do I Imposterproof that new set, so I responded with something that can be used against it once it is in.

Also Groudon wouldn't have to waste 20 turns if Electrify, now that I think of it... it is already immune to Thunderbolt, resists Light of Ruin (recoils hurts Manectric), and is only threatened by Steam Eruption, as it can Shore Up as it survives Ice Beam easily as Imposter lacks Life Orb.

I meant to say check, as I do know the difference (I.e. Prankster Destiny Bond users are checks not counters because they have to survive the turn they switch in), I meant that once Gengar is in, it is immune to all of Manectric. As is Electrify Groudon.

But if it helps, I give you credit for explaining why/what could be better in my posts, which also takes effort to be detailed. And it helps if I didn't already figure it out at times when I didn't pay as close attention as I could have. I will say thank you for the effort and details in all of your and others' post. Especially as you don't want me to feel personally offended, and it is mentioned so I know it's the set, not simply the user being critiqued.

Either way, sometimes it works but doesn't translate to paper, so I sometimes think that if half of the people who criticize whatever I post used the sets themselves they may be pleasantly surprised... listening cuts both ways... I remember even saying "try it out if you don't believe me", and I meant it because it worked for me Without luck being a factor.

Rumors is always fair, I appreciate you finding the small nuggets of info that you like in my post and giving me credit, such as agreeing Life Orb is not on an Imposter user, so the damage output is different. Thanks! Your Choice Specs story reminds me of a trainer that used a Choice Scarf Chansey over Choice Scarf Blissey bc he could bluff Eviolite, but still always go first. Quite the surprise until he told me why he always won the assumed speed tie.
I agree it is paper, but I have tried the sets as well. Maybe I got lucky in all my battles when it worked, maybe the other opponent made mistakes or wasn't very good to begin with. Anyways, it works when it works, and fails when it fails. Even practicing in matches depends on so many factors, like the rest of your team, their team, when you use your set during the match, hazards being up, etc.

P.S. Ironically I did take AP World History when I was in high school...

 

[E4 Flint]

Hello guys
Not trying to be a downer or a party-pooper but I have deleted most of the conversation about VR. I am not trying to censor anything but to rather talk about..

THE BH CENTRAL RESOURCES ARE UP! Click here​

where you can move all your posts to (I didn't because of timestamps).


For your viewing pleasure and to celebrate, here is an interview with the Tier Leader himself

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Interviewer: Hello E4 Flint. I only have one question. What was your philosophy behind making the BH Resource Central?
E4Flint: Hi thanks, that's a great question! I wanted to make it almost feel like a hip-cool place where you can go to discuss resources, mechanics and more about Balanced Hackmons in a way that is bigger and better than last gen! So you can tell your friends, "let's go to the Central!" I considered other names such as The BH Bible mentioned by reputed user motherlove , but in the end I wanted to avoid controversy.

To all our readers, this thread that we are in will remain the official thread to discuss the BH Ladder, sets, teams, mechanics and pretty much everything else except in-depth ban discussion which will, of course, stay in the BH Suspects and Bans Thread!
Interviewer: Sweet Thanks!

*special thanks to our in-house interviewer, E4 Flint.

Let's go to the Central!​

 

[Champion Leon]

I remember running that amphy set before,dont know if anyone else does. Yours a pretty creative set actually,even if I do think ampharos can pack more of a punch. That lack of hitting fairies at ALL is kind of a problem. Oh,and the occasional dark type

Yes it's more of a pivot and not meant to be an attacker, Spore, remove ability, Copycat or parting shot to your teammate.
You can still Spore non-Magic Bounce/safety goggles fairies, or at least Parting shot them (and if it has Magic Bounce then the fairy is switched out not you!)
Yeah, I guess I could slash Destiny Bond over Parting Shot, and Draco Plate over Darkinium-Z. Seed Flare would be good against Diancie-Mega on the switch in, but it would always be Fake-Speed KOed if it didn't hit it in the switch, and Kyogre would be hurt but it would threaten with Ice Beam unless you Seed Flare in the switch and Copycat it next turn.

 

[willdbeast]

I have an interesting set I've tested is an Exeggutor-Alola set.

I was inspired by a set someone else posted with an Ampharos-Mega that used Core Enforcer, Copycat, Substitute, and Thunderbolt.
I'm on my iphone, so bear with the format and lack of replay, since I'm not on my :

Exeggutor-Alola @ Darkinium-Z

Max everything except minus Speed and positive SpA nature with 0 EVS and IVS

Prankster

Spore
Parting Shot
Core Enforcer
Copycat

Spore without fear of Magic Bounce, due to its grass typing. Core Enforcer the switch in, like Kyurem-B or Rayquaza-M, and now that they lost their super effective -Ate, (or Triage) you can either hit them again first with Copycat Core Enforcer, or Parting Shot, unless they want to use Normal-type Extreme Speed...

Core Enforcer is a 2HKO, on both, so unless they switch to a fairy type, something else is at least losing an ability, or losing their Ray/Kyurem. Also, with a Stealth rock, due to their weakness, it may be a 1HKO if you roll a high %.

252+ SpA Exeggutor-Alola Core Enforcer vs. 252 HP / 252 SpD Rayquaza-Mega: 276-326 (66.6 - 78.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

252+ SpA Exeggutor-Alola Core Enforcer vs. 252 HP / 252 SpD Kyurem-Black: 296-350 (65.1 - 77%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
---
For the odd Kyurem-W:

252+ SpA Exeggutor-Alola Core Enforcer vs. 252 HP / 252 SpD Kyurem-White: 276-326 (60.7 - 71.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO.

I use Parting Shot with Darkinium-Z because it allows Exeggutor to pivot out against a powerful foe that isn't a Dark/Dazzling Pokémon, which can either fully heal or just lower the opponent's offenses.
-----
Advantages over the Ampharos set; no need for Safety Goggles, immune to Leech seed, resists Thousand Arrows, 4x Steam Eruption, Zap Cannon/t-bolt/Galvanize, even slower, for guaranteed Core Enforcer going last.
---
Other calcs:
252+ SpA Exeggutor-Alola Core Enforcer vs. 252 HP / 252 SpD Sceptile-Mega: 306-362 (88.9 - 105.2%) -- 31.3% chance to OHKO.

252+ SpA Exeggutor-Alola Core Enforcer vs. 252 HP / 252 SpD Zygarde-Complete: 288-338 (45.2 - 53.1%) -- 29.3% chance to 2HKO

I could use Draco Plate, or some other item, but I like Darkinium-Z for the surprise.
Not promoting as a great set, just as a decent pivot that can surprise some of its would be checks. It has helped me win when I needed something slow but fast.

My goal is to Spore, and hit 2x in a row with Core Enforcer on the switch and Copycat, letting 2HKOs feel like 1 HKOs

You literally posted this exact set 2 weeks ago in this thread...

Try this alternative.
(Exeggutor-Alola) (F) @ Darkinium-Z
Ability: Prankster
Shiny: Yes
Happiness: 0
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD
Quiet Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Spore
- Core Enforcer
- Parting Shot
- Copycat

Spore without worry against Magic Bounce, Parting Shot to serve a purpose for healing teammates with priority; also good for weakening foes and seeing if the opponent will switch. Also this Pokémon is even slower than Ampharos, which is great for Core Enforcer, and can still hit fairly hard. Also, key 4x resistances to Electric, Water, Grass, and a useful 2x resistance to Ground.

P.S. I have tried this out and saw it work by sleeping, Core Enforcing the switch in, then either Parting Shot out, or Copycatting for another hit in a row. A decent pivot.

Core Enforcer also works great to remove Magic Bounce for the Spore next turn. Ampharos would need Safety Goggles to remain safe from a Magic Bounce/enemy Spore users and wouldn't be able to hold the Darkinium-Z item.

As far as I can see the only addition you made was worse formatting and some calcs of how stab core enforcer does some damaged to dragon types.
I'm not saying it's a bad set but it doesn't get better the more times you post it.

 

[Champion Leon]

You literally posted this exact set 2 weeks ago in this thread...

As far as I can see the only addition you made was worse formatting and some calcs of how stab core enforcer does some damaged to dragon types.
I'm not saying it's a bad set but it doesn't get better the more times you post it.

I'm sorry, I thought it was in the creative set thread from 2 weeks ago, I didn't realize it was this thread.
Thanks for notifying me. I'll delete the repeat post and move the calculations there.

Also quick question since I'm not at my computer: does Red Card work with Stakeout? I.e. You get hit, Red Card activates and you use a move afterwards, all in one turn.

Hide

You can ignore this. Just a placeholder so I can import and test later

Groudon) @ Red Card
Ability: Stakeout
Shiny: Yes
Happiness: 0
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD
Brave Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Thousand Arrows
- Shore Up
- Dragon Tail/Circle Throw/Beak Blast
- Recycle

Dragon Tail/Circle Throw is so you don't outspeed the foe, allowing Stakeout to activate after Red Card, letting Dragon Tail hit last to deal double damage if the foe is naturally slower, Dragon Tail/Circle Throw is preferred so you can rack up hazard damage twice in one turn.
Beak Break works as an alternative and can spread status the turn they hit you (before the switch), be forced out by Red Card, and let Beak Blast hit the incoming foe.
P.S. According to Bulbapedia: Red Card doesn't activate if you are hit by a move under the effects of Sheer Force.

 

[cityscapes]

I'm sorry, I thought it was in the creative set thread from 2 weeks ago, I didn't realize it was this thread.
Thanks for notifying me. I'll delete the repeat post and move the calculations there.

Also quick question since I'm not at my computer: does Red Card work with Stakeout? I.e. You get hit, Red Card activates and you use a move afterwards, all in one turn.

Hide

You can ignore this. Just a placeholder so I can import and test later

Groudon) @ Red Card
Ability: Stakeout
Shiny: Yes
Happiness: 0
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD
Brave Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Thousand Arrows
- Shore Up
- Dragon Tail/Circle Throw/Beak Blast
- Recycle

Dragon Tail/Circle Throw is so you don't outspeed the foe, allowing Stakeout to activate after Red Card, letting Dragon Tail hit last to deal double damage if the foe is naturally slower, Dragon Tail/Circle Throw is preferred so you can rack up hazard damage twice in one turn.
Beak Break works as an alternative and can spread status the turn they hit you (before the switch), be forced out by Red Card, and let Beak Blast hit the incoming foe.
P.S. According to Bulbapedia: Red Card doesn't activate if you are hit by a move under the effects of Sheer Force.

yeah it does, in fact i tried out that exact groudon set except with taunt over slot 3. the problem is that it's not quite slow enough and gets outsped by a bunch of defensive pivots and can't really touch them.

 

[Champion Leon]

yeah it does, in fact i tried out that exact groudon set except with taunt over slot 3. the problem is that it's not quite slow enough and gets outsped by a bunch of defensive pivots and can't really touch them.

Thanks for the heads up.
Maybe a slower ground type like Mega Swampert (much weaker defensively and offensively, but only 1 Weakness, and 70 Speed when lowered all the way, can still be slow enough). Mega Steelix is too weak spD wise and low HP, and many more weaknesses.
100 HP/150 attack/110 defense/110 spD might be just enough to make it.
At least it won't be weak to thousand arrows from Imposter. I'll have to test it but I'll update with the results

 

[nyan kat]

An interesting Stakeout set I've been using a bit is with Doom Desire.

set

Dialga @ Safety Goggles/Steelium Z
Ability: Stakeout
Level: 99
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD
Quiet Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Recover
- Doom Desire
- Core Enforcer
- Dragon Tail

⠀⠀Min speed and lvl 99 to underspeed Giratina, so that you can consistently nullify their ability if they have Poison Heal and more importantly get the Stakeout boost if they U-turn. Steelium Z lets you beat Sub Fairies, which you also use to imposterproof this (though if you Dtail Chansey out Chansey's Doom Desire will hit with 35 SpA)

⠀⠀I didn't save any replays, but with Showdown's mechanics if they switch on the turn that Doom Desire hits (Getting phazed by DTail counts) then you get the Stakeout boost, which lets you spin the wheel like with normal Doom Desire phasing to kill something, but with Stakeout it's even more potent. Dialga has to be in for Stakeout to apply, but you can still switch out the turn after you use Doom Desire and switch back in for the boost if they switch, which can lead to interesting synergy with nukes or even Endeavor Shed (can be a 50/50 whether you attack or go back to Dialga if a switch is predicted)

+2 252+ SpA Dialga Doom Desire vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Zygarde-Complete: 402-474 (63.2 - 74.5%) Finished off with Enforcer
+2 252+ SpA Dialga Doom Desire vs. 252 HP / 252 SpD Mewtwo-Mega-Y: 375-442 (90.1 - 106.2%) -- 37.5% chance to OHKO

⠀⠀It doesn't help that Dialga is weak to common coverage and PDon and Pogre both resist Doom Desire but the set is still great against balanced builds from my experience and paired with the right attackers does really well.

Edit: Changed calcs to reflect lvl 99

 

[Champion Leon]

An interesting Stakeout set I've been using a bit is with Doom Desire.

set

Dialga @ Safety Goggles/Steelium Z
Ability: Stakeout
Level: 99
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD
Quiet Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Recover
- Doom Desire
- Core Enforcer
- Dragon Tail

⠀⠀Min speed and lvl 99 to underspeed Giratina, so that you can consistently nullify their ability if they have Poison Heal and more importantly get the Stakeout boost if they U-turn. Steelium Z lets you beat Sub Fairies, which you also use to imposterproof this (though if you Dtail Chansey out Chansey's Doom Desire will hit with 35 SpA)

⠀⠀I didn't save any replays, but with Showdown's mechanics if they switch on the turn that Doom Desire hits (Getting phazed by DTail counts) then you get the Stakeout boost, which lets you spin the wheel like with normal Doom Desire phasing to kill something, but with Stakeout it's even more potent. Dialga has to be in for Stakeout to apply, but you can still switch out the turn after you use Doom Desire and switch back in for the boost if they switch, which can lead to interesting synergy with nukes or even Endeavor Shed (can be a 50/50 whether you attack or go back to Dialga if a switch is predicted)

+2 252+ SpA Dialga Doom Desire vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Zygarde-Complete: 415-489 (65.2 - 76.8%) Finished off with Enforcer
+2 252+ SpA Dialga Doom Desire vs. 252 HP / 252 SpD Mewtwo-Mega-Y: 388-457 (93.2 - 109.8%) -- 56.3% chance to OHKO

⠀⠀It doesn't help that Dialga is weak to common coverage and PDon and Pogre both resist Doom Desire but the set is still great against balanced builds from my experience and paired with the right attackers does really well.

Totally like that set! It might be interesting as well if Stakeout and Doom Desire work if you switch out from a non-Stakeout user, to a Stakeout user.

Say you have Doom Desire, Baton Pass, Tail Glow, filler and Baton Pass the to stakeout user.

So turns Go like this

1. Tail Glow on say a Simple user
2. Doom Desire / Future Sight
3. Baton Pass to a Stakeout user
4. Dragon Tail / Circle Throw just before the hit at the end of the turn.

Obviously Normal types are immune to Spectral Thief like, so Arceus or some other Tail Glow users might work, before passing to a Normal type like Meloetta if you opt for STAB Future Sight rather than Spectral Thief vunerable Steel types for STAB on Doom Desire.

The Stakeout user could obviously have Doom Desire as well, to continue from then on, but the point is as long as your final Pokémon has Stakeout, since Doom Desire is delayed, you don't have to have it on the initial Pokémon.

 

[Duckymomo Senior]

This thing good:

Mewtwo-Mega-X @ Focus Sash
Ability: Psychic Surge
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Rash Nature
- Shell Smash
- Stored Power
- Power Trip
- Close Combat

Rip Zygarde-C, Giratina, Solgaleo, Gyarados, Solgaleo, Celesteela, Dialga, Registeel non- unaware Audino (although it's usually unaware), Aegislash, Xerneas, Yveltal if u got rocks up, Arceus, and 90% of the time Pogre.
Unfortunately this is fucked by imposter so bring prankster haze/dbond giratina or wait till u killed the imposter. I would highly recommend using rocks 1st to kill shedinja and yveltal although it's up to u.

 

[Deleted User 91486]

This is just another standard APS user. Fucked by Imposter, Prankster Haze and the usual checks. Nothing special...

 

[IronedSandwich]

did I post this set yet?

Regigigas @ Normalium Z
Ability: Queenly Majesty
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Careful Nature
- Shift Gear
- Knock Off
- Heal Bell
- Extreme Speed

if an impostor switches in it can only do negligable damage to you, making them easy setup fodder (unless you're at low health) while also being vulnerable to Knock Off and Breakneck Blitz. It can also be pretty good at revenge killing or sweeping offensive teams with espeed and shift gear. Heal Bell is good utility when you get to use it but it's mostly there to refill your health with Z-Heal Bell if something tries to chip away at your health slowly while you set up.

Regigigas for STAB espeed and ghost immunity

 

[SadisticMystic]

There are 4 ways to bypass the Baton Pass Speed and another stat clause:

Acupressure
Weakness Policy
Speed Boost
Geomancy
All of these allow you to pass multiple stats including Speed, as moveslots won't be prevented.

BH doesn't have a BP clause in the first place, so anything can pass any combination of moves regardless.

 

[Rumors]

did I post this set yet?

Regigigas @ Normalium Z
Ability: Queenly Majesty
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Careful Nature
- Shift Gear
- Knock Off
- Heal Bell
- Extreme Speed

if an impostor switches in it can only do negligable damage to you, making them easy setup fodder (unless you're at low health) while also being vulnerable to Knock Off and Breakneck Blitz. It can also be pretty good at revenge killing or sweeping offensive teams with espeed and shift gear. Heal Bell is good utility when you get to use it but it's mostly there to refill your health with Z-Heal Bell if something tries to chip away at your health slowly while you set up.

Regigigas for STAB espeed and ghost immunity

Biggest problem is it lacks offensive presence outside of Extreme Speed. Knock Off only really hurts once. After the item is gone, you need to spend a lot of turns setting up to even begin to threaten stuff like Giratina. Fur Coat/Unaware Giratina in particular doesn't give a crap about anything the set can do regardless of boosts. Fur Coat Zygarde also sits in the same boat, being only 3HKOed when Gigas is at +6 and not even OHKOed by Breakneck at +6. I believe Registeel also causes problems and most other defensive Unaware/Fur Coat in general just scoff at the set as it has no way to bypass them without teammates.

There's also the consideration that, while you can "wall" an Imposter, you're giving them access to Heal Bell, which may or may not matter depending on how much status the rest of your team has. Imposter can also do significant damage too, as you need to be at +3 to have a chance to OHKO non-Eviolite Chansey from full HP and, if Chansey has similar boosts, its Knock Off is a guaranteed 3HKO at that stage. In the long run, Imposter is going to win this if you've blown your Z-move elsewhere or if you have lots of boosts and you've not managed to get rid of Eviolite.

 

[BlazeFactor]

So, I'm pretty new to the meta, haven't really played much. However, I found this particular set that sounded pretty interesting...



Deoxys-Speed @ Lum Berry
Ability: Mold Breaker
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Spore
- Substitute
- Leech Seed
- Infestation

This set is designed to counter imposters as well as annoy the opponent. The opponent's imposter lead can't beat this set effectively, as the Lum Berry stops any opposing sleep and allows me to sleep them in return. Most of the time, you should go with spore first turn, as it will give you a free turn to sub, unless the opponent is running sleep talk. After subbing, the opponent will likely have switched, so use Infestation to lock them in for a few turns. I used Infestation over Anchor Shot and the like to make sure I get constant chip damage that isn't weakened by resistances (Also, allows for no attack investment as Foul Play sucks when using this set). It runs through most opponents, mainly due to Mold Breaker being a really strong ability for it. This set even messes with Poison Healers, as even they die in a few turns or are severely weakened. The only mons this set is really walled by are Comatose mons, mons with Safety Goggles, imposters with Lum Berry (only if they win the second turn speed tie, so pretty shaky counter), grass-types (mostly just Kartana, although it still has some problems), and Prankster Taunt leads. It's a powerful and disruptive chip set that I feel has a lot of potential.

 

[Rumors]

My first thought is "Why not Safety Goggles if spamming Spore?"

But yeah, not sure this is the right set for Deo-S. Second thought is something bulkier would be more ideal, particularly one that could take priority attacks or somesuch when Sub is down. It also really lacks a way to beat walls reliably, since most of them will just Recover and will take niggling damage from direct Infestation. Its also kind of helpless against Substitute users (such as Imposter if it leads with Substitute instead of Spore) and does zero damage to Magic Guard, which, admittedly, isn't the most common. S.Tag Gengar can also potentially trap and Perish Song to death, at the cost of getting whittled significantly. Poison Heal with recovery secondary pretty much ignores the set and, if offensive, can just keep punching Deo's subs in the face until Deo is forced out or drops. And then there's Taunt, particularly of the Prankster variety.

It definitely looks annoying, but seems like the sort of thing that, after a bit of harassing, would get taken out without accomplishing a whole lot against most mid and high ladder players.

 

[HDF0]

What was this guy planning?

http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7balancedhackmons-578921357

 

[jrm115]

What was this guy planning?

http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7balancedhackmons-578921357

it looks like it was gonna baton pass, but tbh at low ladder no one puts much thought into anything
and the other team was also a little bit silly but w/e

 

[HDF0]

it looks like it was gonna baton pass, but tbh at low ladder no one puts much thought into anything
and the other team was also a little bit silly but w/e

Erm... Which team? I was the Protable guy.

 

[jrm115]

Erm... Which team? I was the Protable guy.

well then your team could benefit from some changes towards the meta. for instance, just at a simple glance, seaking is worse than primal kyogre at literally everything, imposter sawk could be improved with a chansey set, and for what i'm just gonna guess is a levitate drapion, not having weaknesses doesn't stop you from dying easily to neutral or even strong resisted hits.