BH Balanced Hackmons

Manectric OHKOs most Primal Groudon with Steam Eruption and 2HKOs most Zygarde with Ice Beam. It also outspeeds them, so it can also jack with them using moves like Spore. Its certainly not a hard counter, but it can certainly be set dependent. Honestly, it has more consistent problems with stuff like Giratina who lack an exploitable 4x weakness.
 
Here's a pretty cool set I've been using that takes advantage of some of the goofy behavior of some moves with the -ate abilities. Might move it over to creative/under-rated once I get some replays together.



Landorus (M) @ Sky Plate
Ability: Galvanize
Naive Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Revelation Dance

- Boomburst / Extreme Speed

- Judgment
/
/

- Shell Smash

This is a shell smash sweeper that is entirely imposter proof and also has a couple additional benefits over similar sets. Revelation dance is unaffected by galvanize, so it is ground type. Landorus is immune to this. The strong normal move of your choice will be electric type -- landorus is also immune to this by virtue of its typing. Judgment will be determined by the type of plate you carry, but for imposters it will be electric, so Landorus is also immune. You can either opt for a second STAB here, or go for coverage --whichever your team is less adept at handling. +Spe Nature is unfortunately preferred since you are otherwise slower than +spe primal groudon
That set basically gets bopped by any refrigerate fake-speeder ever.
By no means a bad setup, very creative, but make sure you have some psychic terrain support or take out any possible refrigerators before shell smashing.
Alternatively, if you don't have any ate-speed counters, you could run dazzling and replace bburst with something like... idk, thunderbolt? If you're looking to counter kyogre, you could run bolt strike with a -def +SpA nature, which would do just as much damage
Just a thought.
 
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"Any form" is limited to forms that exist in the game data, and the costume Pikachu was only included in the data for OR/AS, not anything afterward. "Hackmons" are defined with respect to the most current games, so those forms are inaccessible even here, as is the old "??? Plate" Arceus.
 

Champion Leon

Banned deucer.
Manectric OHKOs most Primal Groudon with Steam Eruption and 2HKOs most Zygarde with Ice Beam. It also outspeeds them, so it can also jack with them using moves like Spore. Its certainly not a hard counter, but it can certainly be set dependent. Honestly, it has more consistent problems with stuff like Giratina who lack an exploitable 4x weakness.
Lovely Kiss is the new Spore, Safety Goggles won't protect the enemy, and Kartana is not immune.

It could use Light of Ruin as a way to handle Giratina, as it also threatens Mega-Tyranitar, Pheromosa, Mega-Mewtwo-X and the odd Triage Heracross, better than its other moves.
Yes, we all know about the recoil, but for something that hits hard and fast, Manectric will want all the strongest coverage moves, with Ice Beam, Boomburst, Steam Eruption, Light of Ruin. Provide it Life Orb or Expert Belt, and you have yourself a dangerous Galvanizer in regards to being a surprise check to common threats that think it won't make a dent.

The thing about Manectric is, people undermine its power and switch in a resist, forgetting that Manectric is just powerful enough to threaten its own checks. It's a lure.
 
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Yes, gotta have that sweet 25% chance to miss. Which, considering Manectric's lack of bulk, is risky as heck. It has the durability to survive one strong neutral hit and a couple of moderate hits. If bypassing Safety Goggles and the odd Kartana/Sceptile is the goal, run Lovely Kiss on something that won't suffer dearly for missing. You already need that little bit of bulk to survive early wake-ups, so you can't afford to spend it on a miss.

For that same reason, I'd be leery about running Life Orb or recoil moves. (Pre-510 though? Heck yeah, since Manectric would OHKO most good attackers anyway with the right coverage or a Boomburst.) ~60-80% remaining health is when things start to look dicey for surviving an attack, depending on the attacker.
 

Champion Leon

Banned deucer.
Yes, gotta have that sweet 25% chance to miss. Which, considering Manectric's lack of bulk, is risky as heck. It has the durability to survive one strong neutral hit and a couple of moderate hits. If bypassing Safety Goggles and the odd Kartana/Sceptile is the goal, run Lovely Kiss on something that won't suffer dearly for missing. You already need that little bit of bulk to survive early wake-ups, so you can't afford to spend it on a miss.

For that same reason, I'd be leery about running Life Orb or recoil moves. (Pre-510 though? Heck yeah, since Manectric would OHKO most good attackers anyway with the right coverage or a Boomburst.) ~60-80% remaining health is when things start to look dicey for surviving an attack, depending on the attacker.
But isn't it worse to try and Spore something that ends up having Safety Goggles? 100% chance to do nothing. Say you try and Spore Groudon, it doesn't sleep and then 1HKOs Manectric.

If Stealth Rock is on the field, Giratina with a +SpD nature would still be guaranteed 2HKOed as the extra damage negates the heal from Poison Heal if Giratina uses Protect/some equivalent.
As for Giratina: Light of Ruin vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Giratina: 260-307 (51.5 - 60.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
100%-12.5%= 87.5%-51.5%=36%+12.5%= 48.5%-51.5%= -3%
-----
Light of Ruin vs. 252 HP / 252 SpD Giratina: 286-338 (56.7 - 67%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

Even without Stealth Rock, if Giratina doesn't have a +SpD nature, and had Poison Heal, if it switches in at 100% and uses Protect/some equivalent the next turn: 100% HP - 56.7% = 43.3 + 12.5% = 55.8% - 56.7% = -.9% so it is a guaranteed 2HKO with a Life Orb boost -

This is just to make a point that Manectric can 2HKO some of its own would-be checks.
 
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But isn't it worse to try and Spore something that ends up having Safety Goggles? 100% chance to do nothing. Say you try and Spore Groudon, it doesn't sleep and then 1HKOs Manectric.
That's why you don't Spore if you're unsure if the opponent has Safety Goggles. Especially if they switch in knowing you have Spore. If you watch the replays I posted, I never hit Safety Goggles with Spore unless they switched into the move. A little Knock Off support goes a long way. But yes, if you do Spore into Safety Goggles, it sucks. But it also sucks to miss that Groudon with Sweet Kiss and then get OHKOed. I think needing a little Knock Off support, a move you generally want anyway on your team, is better than the miss chance. Plus Kartana, Venusaur, and Mega Sceptile aren't exactly common. And if you have Ice Beam, full health Manectric beats non-Specs Sceptile 100% of the time unless Sceptile sleeps Manectric first. With Specs, Manectric beats Timid Leaf Storm 56.2% of the time, Timid Seed Flare 100% of the time, and Modest Seed Flare 43.7% of the time before factoring in accuracy and crits.

2HKOing Giratina is neat, but you still can't beat Zygarde if it has a Ground-STAB and you miss the predict. And since Manectric's neutral coverage hits are generally pretty weak, it's not hard to miss said prediction since you do want to use Boomburst to keep your opponent playing honest. Otherwise they'll have their full health Yveltal take an Ice Beam and Shell Smash and Power Trip in your face, which is never fun. Hence why I feel Manectric performs a bit better with a more disruptive set rather than as an all-out attacker. You don't need the extra power if the opponent can't fight back.


Not saying you can't all-out attack with Manectric. Or set-up sweep or whatever. You're just going to need more team support to do it. ...and a more dedicated anti-Imposter. What do you run to beat Electric/Ice/Fairy/Water coverage? AV Regen Solgaleo?
 

Champion Leon

Banned deucer.
That's why you don't Spore if you're unsure if the opponent has Safety Goggles. Especially if they switch in knowing you have Spore. If you watch the replays I posted, I never hit Safety Goggles with Spore unless they switched into the move. A little Knock Off support goes a long way. But yes, if you do Spore into Safety Goggles, it sucks. But it also sucks to miss that Groudon with Sweet Kiss and then get OHKOed. I think needing a little Knock Off support, a move you generally want anyway on your team, is better than the miss chance. Plus Kartana, Venusaur, and Mega Sceptile aren't exactly common. And if you have Ice Beam, full health Manectric beats non-Specs Sceptile 100% of the time unless Sceptile sleeps Manectric first. With Specs, Manectric beats Timid Leaf Storm 56.2% of the time, Timid Seed Flare 100% of the time, and Modest Seed Flare 43.7% of the time before factoring in accuracy and crits.

2HKOing Giratina is neat, but you still can't beat Zygarde if it has a Ground-STAB and you miss the predict. And since Manectric's neutral coverage hits are generally pretty weak, it's not hard to miss said prediction since you do want to use Boomburst to keep your opponent playing honest. Otherwise they'll have their full health Yveltal take an Ice Beam and Shell Smash and Power Trip in your face, which is never fun. Hence why I feel Manectric performs a bit better with a more disruptive set rather than as an all-out attacker. You don't need the extra power if the opponent can't fight back.


Not saying you can't all-out attack with Manectric. Or set-up sweep or whatever. You're just going to need more team support to do it. ...and a more dedicated anti-Imposter. What do you run to beat Electric/Ice/Fairy/Water coverage? AV Regen Solgaleo?
How about a Prankster Electrify on Groudon?

Then I slow pivot to a sweeper with U-turn once thy switch out after being prevented from making any damage: You might have seen this:

Mawile @ Mawilite
Ability: Prankster
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Spore
- Substitute
- Shell Smash
- Sunsteel Strike

Spore with Prankster first, Substitute before you set-up, Shell Smash until Substitute is broken, then repeat Sleep, Substitute, Shell Smash until adequate, and finally Mega-Evolve to sweep.
By Mega-Evolving you also remove Prankster which enables Spore against Dark/Psychic Surge/Dazzling Pokemon.
Sunsteel Strike: Gains STAB, has no Immunities, and breaks through Sturdy/Unaware.
248 HP EVs so you can set 4 Substitutes, as max HP EVs creates a number divisible by four and only allows 3 Substitutes.

Rules:
1. Reusable: Notable especially if you save your Mega-Evolution for later. (I.e. switching it in after your teammate dies, then Sporing through Prankster, and switching it out as they send in a counter, allowing you to maintain momentum, and save for a sweep later on).
2. Imposter proof/resist: I know it must be able to stop Imposter, so I use Substitute to "Imposter-resist".
 
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How about a Prankster Electrify on Groudon?

Then I slow pivot to a sweeper with U-turn: You might have seen this:

Mawile @ Mawilite
Ability: Prankster
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Spore
- Substitute
- Shell Smash
- Sunsteel Strike

Spore with Prankster first, Substitute before you set-up, Shell Smash until Substitute is broken, then repeat Sleep, Substitute, Shell Smash until adequate, and finally Mega-Evolve to sweep.
By Mega-Evolving you also remove Prankster which enables Spore against Dark/Psychic Surge/Dazzling Pokemon.
Sunsteel Strike: Gains STAB, has no Immunities, and breaks through Sturdy/Unaware.
248 HP EVs so you can set 4 Substitutes, as max HP EVs creates a number divisible by four and only allows 3 Substitutes.

Rules:
1. Reusable: Notable especially if you save your Mega-Evolution for later. (I.e. switching it in after your teammate dies, then Sporing through Prankster, and switching it out as they send in a counter, allowing you to maintain momentum, and save for a sweep later on).
2. Imposter proof/resist: I know it must be able to stop Imposter, so I use Substitute to "Imposter-resist".

I'd post the replays, but I don't want what happened last time to happen again ;)
Prank elec is still worse than galvanize judg tbh, ground/electric coverage is probably fine most of the time and is actually imposterproof.
also the reason "what happened last time" happened was because that set wasn't viable, you got lucky in your replays, you were a jerk about it, and people called you out.
imposter resisting is worthless because once sub is broken you still get swept by your own set unless you have actual imposterproofing on your own team (which i doubt you do).
prankster shell smash is bad because you lower your defenses earlier than you have to in order to get the boosts.
also even at +2 or +4 there are still things that wall you, like some zygc/regi sets, which often run haze (which pierces subs, by the way)
this set isn't good, please stop posting it.
 

Champion Leon

Banned deucer.
Prank elec is still worse than galvanize judg tbh, ground/electric coverage is probably fine most of the time and is actually imposterproof.
also the reason "what happened last time" happened was because that set wasn't viable, you got lucky in your replays, you were a jerk about it, and people called you out.
imposter resisting is worthless because once sub is broken you still get swept by your own set unless you have actual imposterproofing on your own team (which i doubt you do).
prankster shell smash is bad because you lower your defenses earlier than you have to in order to get the boosts.
also even at +2 or +4 there are still things that wall you, like some zygc/regi sets, which often run haze (which pierces subs, by the way)
this set isn't good, please stop posting it.
I am focusing on handling Manectric, not the team in its entirety.
Groudon was just a quick example of stopping an Imposter Manectric, not Impostering itself, although it happens to Imposterproof itself anyways.
Mawile was an example saying if you have the ability to Spore and sweep you can sweep even with it. I didn't hurt someone's feelings.
 
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How about a Prankster Electrify on Groudon?

Then I slow pivot to a sweeper with U-turn once thy switch out after being prevented from making any damage: You might have seen this:

Mawile @ Mawilite
Ability: Prankster
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Spore
- Substitute
- Shell Smash
- Sunsteel Strike

Spore with Prankster first, Substitute before you set-up, Shell Smash until Substitute is broken, then repeat Sleep, Substitute, Shell Smash until adequate, and finally Mega-Evolve to sweep.
By Mega-Evolving you also remove Prankster which enables Spore against Dark/Psychic Surge/Dazzling Pokemon.
Sunsteel Strike: Gains STAB, has no Immunities, and breaks through Sturdy/Unaware.
248 HP EVs so you can set 4 Substitutes, as max HP EVs creates a number divisible by four and only allows 3 Substitutes.

Rules:
1. Reusable: Notable especially if you save your Mega-Evolution for later. (I.e. switching it in after your teammate dies, then Sporing through Prankster, and switching it out as they send in a counter, allowing you to maintain momentum, and save for a sweep later on).
2. Imposter proof/resist: I know it must be able to stop Imposter, so I use Substitute to "Imposter-resist".

I'd post the replays, but I don't want what happened last time to happen again ;)
Mawile:
It gets mauled by opposing Prankster, Safety Googles, Magic Bounce, Poison Heal, Psychic Terrain support, Dazzling, Spectral Thief and -ates (because Boomburst). Also it has no recovery (it means you can't reuse it, since you are basing it on Substitute). And lastly you are not even that imposter resistant, given that the imposter can totally handle you (Even after a Shell Smash, you are not guaranteed to OHKO the imposter's Sub. The imposter 2HKOes you at +0. Also you can't win a Spore war because you lack an immunity to it). If you try to Mega then it will outprioritize and kill you while sleeping.
Slowbro-Mega also happen to survive Sunsteel even at +6 (yeah wtf)
+6 252+ Atk Huge Power Mawile-Mega Sunsteel Strike vs. 252 HP / 252 Def Slowbro-Mega: 317-373 (80.4 - 94.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
 

Champion Leon

Banned deucer.
Mawile:
It gets mauled by opposing Prankster, Safety Googles, Magic Bounce, Poison Heal, Psychic Terrain support, Dazzling, Spectral Thief and -ates (because Boomburst). Also it has no recovery (it means you can't reuse it, since you are basing it on Substitute). And lastly you are not even that imposter resistant, given that the imposter can totally handle you (Even after a Shell Smash, you are not guaranteed to OHKO the imposter's Sub. The imposter 2HKOes you at +0. Also you can't win a Spore war because you lack an immunity to it). If you try to Mega then it will outprioritize and kill you while sleeping.
Slowbro-Mega also happen to survive Sunsteel even at +6 (yeah wtf)
+6 252+ Atk Huge Power Mawile-Mega Sunsteel Strike vs. 252 HP / 252 Def Slowbro-Mega: 317-373 (80.4 - 94.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
The point of the set is to Spore something which will inevitably cause a switch to something that can handle another Prankster Spore (say a Dark type ). You Substitute on the switch, which allows you to Shell Smash the next turn as they attempt to break the Substitute with whatever they switched in. If it is a Dark-type/Dazzling/Psychic Surger, then you simply Mega Evolve since you have already Shell Smashed behind the Sub and outspeed them, in order to Spore them. Then as they are required to switch out, not knowing you would have simply removed Prankster, you just Substitute again. Behind your second Substitute you prepare for a Shell Smash again or a Sunsteel Strike sweep if they send in a common -ate user such as Kyurem-B/W of Diancie-Mega.

Opposing Prankster is situational, depending on their speed and what move they select. Oftentimes I go for the Spore on Imposter Chansey, which can outpace their Sunsteel Strike, and has a chance of going before their Spore.
Mega Mawile has no trouble breaking an Imposter's Substitute, even with no Shell Smash. And with Shell Smash's -1 Def included on Imposter it would negate the Eviolote defense boost as Mega-Mawile has over 1,300 Attack from 1 Shell smash. I know you meant regular Mawile but most of the time regular Mawile is behind the sub anyways.

Slowbro-Mega is pretty uncommon, but I agree some things can take a hit.

Huge Power Mawile-Mega Sunsteel Strike vs. 252 HP / 252 Def Rayquaza-Mega: 486-573 (117.3 - 138.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Shell Smash.

You assume that Mawile, whom is faster after a Shell Smash wouldn't just KO Rayquaza in the first place which it does before Boomburst would have hit.

As for Triage Oblivion Wing and Aerilate Extreme Speed:

252 Atk Aerilate Rayquaza-Mega Extreme Speed vs. -1 252 HP / 252 Def Mawile-Mega: 102-120 (33.5 - 39.4%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

252 SpA Rayquaza-Mega Oblivion Wing vs. -1 252 HP / 252 SpD Mawile-Mega: 102-121 (33.5 - 39.8%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
So as Mawile has weaker Special Defense, it would take the same as a higher base Power Extreme Speed under Aerilate.

Even if I had already used 2 Substitutes and they were broken (taking me down to 50% HP plus 1 HP) it wouldn't KO, and since Rayquaza has higher Attack than Kyurem and Diancie-Mega, they would do even less, and since both are weak to a Sunsteel Strike, they would be 1HKOed for sure.

I agree under the right situation the foe can counter it, but factoring in the resistances and Defense boost upon Mega Evolving it can take some priority from the hardest hitting BH users and 1HKO back. And this is factoring in the -1 Def and -1 SpD after a Shell Smash.
 
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How about a Prankster Electrify on Groudon?

Then I slow pivot to a sweeper with U-turn once thy switch out after being prevented from making any damage: You might have seen this:

Mawile @ Mawilite
Ability: Prankster
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Spore
- Substitute
- Shell Smash
- Sunsteel Strike

Spore with Prankster first, Substitute before you set-up, Shell Smash until Substitute is broken, then repeat Sleep, Substitute, Shell Smash until adequate, and finally Mega-Evolve to sweep.
By Mega-Evolving you also remove Prankster which enables Spore against Dark/Psychic Surge/Dazzling Pokemon.
Sunsteel Strike: Gains STAB, has no Immunities, and breaks through Sturdy/Unaware.
248 HP EVs so you can set 4 Substitutes, as max HP EVs creates a number divisible by four and only allows 3 Substitutes.

Rules:
1. Reusable: Notable especially if you save your Mega-Evolution for later. (I.e. switching it in after your teammate dies, then Sporing through Prankster, and switching it out as they send in a counter, allowing you to maintain momentum, and save for a sweep later on).
2. Imposter proof/resist: I know it must be able to stop Imposter, so I use Substitute to "Imposter-resist".

I'd post the replays, but I don't want what happened last time to happen again ;)
Can I just ask why only two sentences (actually an argument can be given for just having a single sentance) were devoted to the topic while the rest of the post was dedicated to your Mega Mawile set that got a few lucky runs on the ladder, then got deleted from the Creative and Underrated Sets thread?
... Anyway... I was theorymonning this set earlier and I think it's pretty good on paper. Unfortunately I haven't had the time to test it on the ladder so hopefully ill bring some replays to accompany this post in the near future.


Pidgeot-Mega @ Choice Specs
Ability: Stakeout
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Boomburst
- Blue Flare
- Moongeist Beam
- Switcheroo / Hidden Power [Ground]

I really wanted to abuse STAB Boom Burst when I started my theorymon sesh (that sounds weird) and since mega pidgeot has the highest spA of all normal types besides Drampa, and has a great speed tier to go along with it, I chose it for this task. So yeah, im gonna run you through the set so you can critique it and fix it up if you'd like etc.

Boom Burst - With Choice Specs, Mega Pidgeot hits a whopping 553 spA, allowing it to 2hko nearly every non resist in the Metagame that isn't holding an assault vest. Coupled with Stakeout, Mega Pdgeot lands OHKO's on 6 of the 7 highest BST mons in the game (5 if you're using av regen primal kyogre but that calc is for later). Essentially, if they do not have a normal type resist or if said resist is around 50% ish health your primary goal is to click Boom Burst until your track pad or mouse breaks.

Blue Flare - Pretty obvious what this is here for as it provides great synergy with Boom Burst as it is able to nail steels that would otherwise get in the way of a great thing.

Moongiest Beam - Pretty much just to nail Sturdninja and to nail things like Giratina on the switch for insane amounts of damage. This coupled with the last two moves provide excellent coverage together.

Switcheroo - Switcheroo is a wonderous move letting your to pick and choose which pokemon on your opponents team that you want to cripple for the remainder of the match. While this does remove your wall breaking potential, this ability is pretty great nevertheless.
& as a secondary option
Hidden Power Ground - Now this looks weird and thats because it is. Basically this is an emergency check to Normalize Gengar which peeps like to throw out late game when your entire team is at half health and rocks are up. This also technically completes the coverage as mega ttar gets hit by hp ground heh. (DONT USE THIS UNLESS YOU HAVE LITERALLY NO WAY TO BEAT NORMALIZE GAR OR U WANT TO BOP MEGA TTAR FOR 25% THX)

As for potential partners I chose this guy:
Tyranitar-Mega @ Safety Goggles
Ability: Sand Stream
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD
Sassy Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Knock Off
- Shore Up
- U-turn
- Diamond Storm / Spectral Thief

It basically improofs the entire set and can Knock Off potential assault vests off those that can potentially switch into Mega Pidgeot. It also checks Aerilate Mega Ray pretty well and gets a nice 75% recovery from shore up. Now, onto calcs!

(Note, if the attack does more than 50% without stakeout, Im not going to show the stakeout calc):
252 SpA Choice Specs Pidgeot-Mega Boomburst vs. 252 HP / 252 SpD Mewtwo-Mega-X: 279-328 (67 - 78.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 SpA Choice Specs Pidgeot-Mega Boomburst vs. 252 HP / 252 SpD Mewtwo-Mega-Y: 246-289 (59.1 - 69.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 SpA Choice Specs Pidgeot-Mega Boomburst vs. 248 HP / 252 SpD Rayquaza-Mega: 279-328 (67.5 - 79.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 SpA Choice Specs Pidgeot-Mega Boomburst vs. 252 HP / 252 SpD Kyogre-Primal: 199-235 (49.2 - 58.1%) -- 98% chance to 2HKO
and for Assault Vest Kyogre
+2 252 SpA Choice Specs Pidgeot-Mega Boomburst vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Assault Vest Kyogre-Primal: 241-285 (59.6 - 70.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 SpA Choice Specs Pidgeot-Mega Boomburst vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Assault Vest Kyogre-Primal: 121-144 (29.9 - 35.6%) -- 31.7% chance to 3HKO
and if you average the calcs and add them together, you deal 97.8% of Kyogre's health meaning if rocks are up, it cannot switch into mega pidgeot under almost any circumstance.
252 SpA Choice Specs Pidgeot-Mega Boomburst vs. 252 HP / 252 SpD Groudon-Primal: 298-352 (73.7 - 87.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 SpA Choice Specs Pidgeot-Mega Boomburst vs. 252 HP / 252 SpD Arceus: 246-289 (55.4 - 65%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
+2 252 SpA Choice Specs Pidgeot-Mega Boomburst vs. 252 HP / 252 SpD Zygarde-Complete: 576-678 (90.5 - 106.6%) -- 75% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
+2 252 SpA Choice Specs Pidgeot-Mega Blue Flare vs. 248 HP / 252+ SpD Assault Vest Solgaleo: 452-534 (94.7 - 111.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
+2 252 SpA Choice Specs Pidgeot-Mega Moongeist Beam vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Giratina: 426-502 (84.5 - 99.6%) -- 75% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
252 SpA Choice Specs Pidgeot-Mega Boomburst vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Audino-Mega: 216-255 (52.6 - 62.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
+2 252 SpA Choice Specs Pidgeot-Mega Boomburst vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Assault Vest Gyarados-Mega: 282-333 (71.5 - 84.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock

These are all the threats that I found most common in the current metagame, both offensively and defensively. If you have any other ideas of how much damage this does to another threat, hopefully this can help you asses it.

and just for the fun
+2 252 SpA Choice Specs Pidgeot-Mega Hidden Power Ground vs. 252 HP / 252 SpD Tyranitar-Mega: 282-332 (69.8 - 82.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock

sorry for the super long post ahaha
 
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How about a Prankster Electrify on Groudon?

Then I slow pivot to a sweeper with U-turn once thy switch out after being prevented from making any damage
That can work, but its not particularly good. Electrify has only 32 PP and an Imposter has 20. So if they can you to sit there and Electrify for at least 13 turns, they can switch in on Manectric later and save a Steam Eruption to to bop Groudon when it runs dry the next time around. Meanwhile, while you can slow pivot out, it must be to something that can take the remaining hits from whatever PP the Imposter has left if it doesn't swap out when you U-Turn. For example, if you swap to your Mawile, you risk it waking up and Boombursting you after a Smash or two, Sub or not, which would probably be a OHKO thanks to the SpD drops. (Not gonna comment on the Mawile itself though.)

You also risk giving them a free switch by Electrifying when they switch. I'm not sure if Electrify Ground-type stops stuff like Taunt. I know the abilities do, but they function a little differently from type-based immunities. Either way, its a VERY prediction heavy tactic.


Smogon Genie Biggest problem I see is the prediction necessary. Giratina can safely switch into a Boomburst while Gigas can switch into a Moongeist. If Gira holds a Z-Crystal (Gigas almost never does), it can also swap into Switcheroo. There's also the risk of tricking Specs onto a special attacker. Imposter can also come in on the set and give one of your Pokemon a useless Eviolite if it wants to give it up. Or in other words, you really gotta be sure of what your opponent is doing unless you, at best, give him a free turn and, at worse, give him a big advantage.

Either way, cool set though. I'm mostly curious how it performs without Specs and where it doesn't get the Stakeout boost though. If poorly, you may want to seriously consider Volt Switch or something.
 

Champion Leon

Banned deucer.
That can work, but its not particularly good. Electrify has only 32 PP and an Imposter has 20. So if they can you to sit there and Electrify for at least 13 turns, they can switch in on Manectric later and save a Steam Eruption to to bop Groudon when it runs dry the next time around. Meanwhile, while you can slow pivot out, it must be to something that can take the remaining hits from whatever PP the Imposter has left if it doesn't swap out when you U-Turn. For example, if you swap to your Mawile, you risk it waking up and Boombursting you after a Smash or two, Sub or not, which would probably be a OHKO thanks to the SpD drops. (Not gonna comment on the Mawile itself though.)

You also risk giving them a free switch by Electrifying when they switch. I'm not sure if Electrify Ground-type stops stuff like Taunt. I know the abilities do, but they function a little differently from type-based immunities. Either way, its a VERY prediction heavy tactic.

Smogon Genie Biggest problem I see is the prediction necessary. Giratina can safely switch into a Boomburst while Gigas can switch into a Moongeist. If Gira holds a Z-Crystal (Gigas almost never does), it can also swap into Switcheroo. There's also the risk of tricking Specs onto a special attacker. Imposter can also come in on the set and give one of your Pokemon a useless Eviolite if it wants to give it up. Or in other words, you really gotta be sure of what your opponent is doing unless you, at best, give him a free turn and, at worse, give him a big advantage.

Either way, cool set though. I'm mostly curious how it performs without Specs and where it doesn't get the Stakeout boost though. If poorly, you may want to seriously consider Volt Switch or something.
This was all in relation to just suggesting an alternative to Spore on Mega-Manectric whether it be Lovely Kiss, or Light if Ruin, you asked for a way to counter Imposter, and I replied with a simple quick answer to show that it is easy to handle the Imposter, even a crazy Prankster Electrify Ground type could work.

I then thought, while I'm at it why not let it pivot since it can force it out, and comically enough if Groudon decided to U-Turn out to Mawile, like you suggested just using Spore on Manectric's moveset, while not just Prankster Spore on Mawile? (As long as you go first, why not?)

(I seriously doubt either player would have the patience to make the Imposter Chansey use all 20 pp of the moves copied by Manectric, while being Electrified, as one would either switch or forfeit since there is no Tie/Draw/Stalemate option and games like that just take up endless time).

As for Mawile, I was just acknowledging that if an -ate tried to hit with a priority Move it would have to do it before Shell Smash because they would be outspeed and 1HKOed if Mega-Mawile had over 40% HP since Ray, Diancie and Kyurem wouldn't take that hit from Sunsteel Strike.

I won't discuss the Mawile set again. Just thought it would be sardonic.

Can I just ask why only two sentences (actually an argument can be given for just having a single sentance) were devoted to the topic while the rest of the post was dedicated to your Mega Mawile set that got a few lucky runs on the ladder, then got deleted from the Creative and Underrated Sets thread?
Oh, because if I just said Mega-Mawile and didn't include or explain the set then people wouldn't know what set would make it a sweeper (In case others never heard of it). I kept the set to the point.

I would completely agree if it only ever won due to luck, but it won countless times without relying on luck, such as 1-2 turns Sleep. Sometimes in the 1 turn sleep, they wake up as I use Substitute blocking whatever other move they were going to use such as Topsy-Turvy. Then from there I can re-Spore and Shell Smash, they wake up to attack the Substitute and I Mega and KO.

This all started with: I would post my replays but we all know what happened last time, because it doesn't matter if I prove it works, even with other new better replays with no luck, as the set is looked down on and it would never change anyone's mind. Hence, it's sardonic that nothing will convince anyone.

Anyways I like everyone's set that posted so far! Good job on the Pidgeote-Mega set!
 
Last edited:

Lcass4919

The Xatu Warrior
Pidgeot-Mega @ Choice Specs
Ability: Stakeout
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Boomburst
- Blue Flare
- Moongeist Beam
- Switcheroo / Hidden Power [Ground]

I really wanted to abuse STAB Boom Burst when I started my theorymon sesh (that sounds weird) and since mega pidgeot has the highest spA of all normal types besides Drampa, and has a great speed tier to go along with it, I chose it for this task. So yeah, im gonna run you through the set so you can critique it and fix it up if you'd like etc.

Boom Burst - With Choice Specs, Mega Pidgeot hits a whopping 553 spA, allowing it to 2hko nearly every non resist in the Metagame that isn't holding an assault vest. Coupled with Stakeout, Mega Pdgeot lands OHKO's on 6 of the 7 highest BST mons in the game (5 if you're using av regen primal kyogre but that calc is for later). Essentially, if they do not have a normal type resist or if said resist is around 50% ish health your primary goal is to click Boom Burst until your track pad or mouse breaks.

Blue Flare - Pretty obvious what this is here for as it provides great synergy with Boom Burst as it is able to nail steels that would otherwise get in the way of a great thing.

Moongiest Beam - Pretty much just to nail Sturdninja and to nail things like Giratina on the switch for insane amounts of damage. This coupled with the last two moves provide excellent coverage together.

Switcheroo - Switcheroo is a wonderous move letting your to pick and choose which pokemon on your opponents team that you want to cripple for the remainder of the match. While this does remove your wall breaking potential, this ability is pretty great nevertheless.
& as a secondary option
Hidden Power Ground - Now this looks weird and thats because it is. Basically this is an emergency check to Normalize Gengar which peeps like to throw out late game when your entire team is at half health and rocks are up. This also technically completes the coverage as mega ttar gets hit by hp ground heh. (DONT USE THIS UNLESS YOU HAVE LITERALLY NO WAY TO BEAT NORMALIZE GAR OR U WANT TO BOP MEGA TTAR FOR 25% THX)
very cool sounding set! definitely want to look into using it sometime, though i want to ask, does the lack of bulk pidgeot have ever annoy you? i saw this and i was just thinking, 15 less special attack for almost triple the bulk sounds pretty appealing, but you DO miss on some KO's so idk, do you think the power decrease is too much, im pretty sure you still 2hko most of the mons. heck, with arceus's speed tier, it can actually afford to run modest, allowing it to be stronger then pidge. and not many mons hit the 110-119 benchmark that runs max speed, so arc doesnt lose much for running modest. i personally think the tankyness and slight power increase from modest nature is worth the speed decrease but idk.

also js, but if you run imposter chansey, you can actually hardwall this set, so thats something to consider if you cant squeeze a ttar on your team :P you can also meme with knock off, since chanseys moveset is often "specifically" for when this mon is impostered. im actually really hyped about trying this now.
 
OFFTOPIC!

I've been playing BH for a long time and took the liberty of writing the "Ode to BH", a poem that translates my mood (and probably many other people's) when playing the BH tier. Have fun reading :)

Ode to BH

Oh, Gen 7
And BH gods.
Oh, overpowered
Water Bubble,
Dazzling and
Stakeout.
Chansey kills anything
With Innards Out.
Gen 7 abilities
Making Gen 6 players
Losing capabilities.
It’s a nice day,
Great clime:
Gotta warm up,
For the ladder climb.
Momentum, priority,
ELO
HO team made,
Time to go:
Win the first five
Lose the next tho.
Nerves all shot
Against stall team:
Tina, Zygod,
Audino stalling,
My offensive strategy
Falling.
Primal Don
and PH KOgre are still there
Shell Smash and Power Trip
Everywhere.
Fuck you RNGesus,
Overheat has 10 accuracy:
Another attack miss
Happening “naturally”.
Speed ties,
Input delay,
Disconnections
Every day.
Ten I've won now,
Twelve I've lost
Waiting for my Groudon
To get defrost.
Regigigas used Spore!
Ray sleeps for 3 turns,
No time to complain
Tryin’ to kill a Shed
With Sacred Fire’s burns.
Friends on Facebook:
Party tonight?
No! Gotta
Set this right:
Switch to Full stall
Defending tight and
Metal Bursting all.
Winning streak!
But need to poo...
Never mind
I'll power through
Crowning as I hit Rank two.
Celebrate! Good time to sleep.
One more to play
Who knows,
Could make Rank one
Tomorrow!?
Wake up early,
Lose them all,
Kick a deep hole
In the wall.
On the couch
Too stunned to speak
Do it all again
Next week.


Balanced Freakmons
 
Nice xD It somehow tells my own BH story - I started first with an HO team with Deoys-S lead, Belly Drum Kyu-B etc., but didn't manage to go over 1400 Elo. Then, I switched to Full Stall and climbed up to #5 :D
Ahah, nice :) the poem is actally preety accurate xD about 90% of the players can identify themselves with it xD
 
This was all in relation to just suggesting an alternative to Spore on Mega-Manectric whether it be Lovely Kiss, or Light if Ruin, you asked for a way to counter Imposter, and I replied with a simple quick answer to show that it is easy to handle the Imposter, even a crazy Prankster Electrify Ground type could work.

I then thought, while I'm at it why not let it pivot since it can force it out, and comically enough if Groudon decided to U-Turn out to Mawile, like you suggested just using Spore on Manectric's moveset, while not just Prankster Spore on Mawile? (As long as you go first, why not?)

(I seriously doubt either player would have the patience to make the Imposter Chansey use all 20 pp of the moves copied by Manectric, while being Electrified, as one would either switch or forfeit since there is no Tie/Draw/Stalemate option and games like that just take up endless time).
Clearly you've never watched one of the high ladder stall matches where nobody dies for the first hundred turns. If your only way to stop imposter is to PP stall it without trapping it first, it can just PP stall you in return, since its PP can be replenished repeatedly but you don't even have enough PP to stall it the second time it comes in.
 
very cool sounding set! definitely want to look into using it sometime, though i want to ask, does the lack of bulk pidgeot have ever annoy you? i saw this and i was just thinking, 15 less special attack for almost triple the bulk sounds pretty appealing, but you DO miss on some KO's so idk, do you think the power decrease is too much, im pretty sure you still 2hko most of the mons. heck, with arceus's speed tier, it can actually afford to run modest, allowing it to be stronger then pidge. and not many mons hit the 110-119 benchmark that runs max speed, so arc doesnt lose much for running modest. i personally think the tankyness and slight power increase from modest nature is worth the speed decrease but idk.

also js, but if you run imposter chansey, you can actually hardwall this set, so thats something to consider if you cant squeeze a ttar on your team :P you can also meme with knock off, since chanseys moveset is often "specifically" for when this mon is impostered. im actually really hyped about trying this now.
Thanks for the advice and im glad your eager to try the set for yourself. You were right about the modest thing, Mega Pidgeot lands many more OHKOs with a + boosting nature than without. And yes, Modest Arceus is also a very good option having great bulk and still hitting an alright speed tier. Make sure you have a check for Aerilate mega Ray though as you might have a hard time dealing with it using a modest nature.
 

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