"Kinda annoying, you know..." OU Stallish-Like Team

[Garganator]

Hello again. I'm posting this team, with little inspiration from semi-stall thread, but I gave it a bit of my individual touch and wanted to try Specially Defensive RestTalk Gyarados. So far I'm satisfied with results, but I feel it may be better and still I think I have few problems. Anyway, here it is ;). I hope you'll like it.

Team Building Process:

For first I was really curios to test Jabba's suggestion of Specially Defensive Gyarados and give it a try. In battles I has I'm totally satisfied with it, so I don't think I need to replace it anytime soon. At first idea with this team was to set up Spikes and stall out as much as possible to let ScarfHeatran end game with late game sweep. However, I felt that ScarfTran didn't work that well as I wanted him to work. So I replace him with Jirachi and changed team on a bit more defensive way. Anyway, this team is based to deal as much as possible passive damage and finish game with ChargeSub Rotom-H (however right now I'm using defensive Rotom and rely a bit more on passive damage).

At first as I said before I put in this team 252 HP/252 SpD Careful Gyarados. It keeps at bay few dangerous opponents like Infernape, Heatran, no-Thunderbolt Gengar and Kingdra and also may act as a check to Scizor and Lucario if it's neccesary. Anyway, I like this guy as he do what I expected him to do. I don't think I need to replace him and without him my team would be slaughtered by Infernape, which isn't sexy. But still even with his impressive bulk Stealth Rock was annoying and it still dislikes tanking powerfull physical hits like Outrage from Salamence, so I thought of adding obvious steel type pokemon, which may also put some entry hazard on field and Rapid Spin those annoying rocks. The answer is obvious - Forretress

When I put Forretress on this team (on lead spot) to keep opponent from putting rocks up early which I felt I needed to keep Gyarados in perfect condition on early stage of matches. However, tanking some special hits, especially those of electric type was neccesary, as Forretress can't handle sickly strong Thunderbolts from the likes of Jolteon or Zapdos, so I needed dedicated speciall wall. Also something to pass wish was something, that my team needed. So I added without hesistation (ok, I dislike her, but yeah, she's a beast on what she's doing) the best special wall in game - Pink Blob named Blissey.

With secured special attacks from special side, I saw one glaring weakness - Tyranitar, especially Dragon Dancer could set-up and demolish this team with combination of Stone Edge + Fire Punch, making it extremely hard to stop. Also facing Metagross would be troublesome, as Gyarados is only semi reliable (T-Punch isn't that rare on Metagross, so losing it would be bad) check on this team. So finally, I added something that checks both Metagross and Tyranitar, while being good counter to SDApe, which would annihilate me otherwise. So Swampert lands here and another phazer is nice bonus to have on teams like this. Also Swampert absorbs electric attack, especially physical ones, which Blissey dislikes.

However any good stall team can't ignore threat of Hyper Offense teams, especially those who abuse dragons and SD Heracross, which would give more then few troubles. The main problem I see with standard stall teams is that combination of few Dragon Dancers and lack of speed problem in taking repeated hits. At first I put ScarfTran in that spot, but I felt it's a bit slow and I have more then enough pokemon with similar resistances like Heatran and being forced to use HP Electric on Swampert was a bit ridiculous in my opinion. So I switched him with ScarfJirachi, which does the job in stopping few dragon dancers and it also absorb some dragon-type attacks and thanks to Wish he may do it more then once. I also gave him Trick to stop few Cursers/Calm Minder like Suicune or Snorlax if neccesary.

And of course in the last spot I needed something to stop Rapid Spinners from spinning entry hazards away and something to secure that I'm safe against Gyarados and E-Vire, if Swampert fails to stop them earlier or when something unexpected would like to stop me. The choice is obvious, however I would love to have something with Taunt here to have something else to stop dangerous set-up sweeper like Suicune or Snorlax, when Trick from Jirachi fails me. At first I had SubCharge Rotom-H, but I felt that he didn't work that well, so I just put more defensive version. Yep, Rotom-H lands here to secure few more threats when neccesary. Also something to absorb Explosion is nice to have ;). I was curious if two trick users could work, so I made another change to ScarfRotom to see how it works.

Forretress @ Shed Shell
Careful Nature
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpD
- Rapid Spin
- PayBack
- Spikes
- Gyro Ball

Pretty standard Forretress set. I wanted on lead something that could stop entry hazards from going down. There are two ways for this - to use Taunt user or to use Rapid Spin to prevent any Spikes or Stealth Rock from landing on field. Also I needed something with Rapid Spin as Toxic Spikes aren't great news for me and Gyarados still doesn't enjoy Stealth Rock, so I chose Forry for this job. Also having something to throw entry hazards early in is nice way to start match. Shed Shell is for something like Magnezone, which would otherwise totally annihilate poor Forretress. However I don't feel it works like I would like it to work. But I don't have any idea for change on this spot. At first I had physically defensive EVs, but I really wished for specially defensive spread, so I'll go with it like someone suggested ;). Another change is T-Spikes for Gyro Ball to see how it works.

Fire Attacks goes to Gyarados, Swampert, Blissey (special).

Gyarados @ Leftovers
Careful Nature
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpD
- Rest
- Sleep Talk
- Roar
- Waterfall

Specially Defensive Gyarados... that's right, specially defensive. I was really curious to test it out after JabbaTheGriffin's suggestion and I need to say - I really like how it works. His unique typing and usefull resistances makes it really interesting choice for balanced and stall like teams. Anyway, it would be best to quote myself from "The value of Sleep Talk" thread, as some calculations are interesting enough. It also handles physical threats, which makes this Gyarados solid mixed wall.

MixMence 2OHKoes you with Draco Meteor no matter what when Stealth Rock is up. Without it however, Gyarados makes almost perfect Mence check (only fearing CBMence and SpecsMence). When you face DDMence, Intimidiate show it's magic - of course you die to Outrage, but -1 Outrage can't 2OHKo Porygon2, as double Intimidiate kicks in and you outsmarted opponent with this play. And Salamence user is forced to use Outrage or you just Roar him out. Or you just switch in bulky steel to easily eliminate Outraging Salamence. If you can keep SR away from battlefield, this Gyarados makes surprisngly effective Mence check. Forretress is good partner here as you absorb fire attacks aimed on it so easily and Rapid Spin is always great addition here. However, something else for Rotom-H would be nice and Tyranitar works here having good defensive synergy with you.

Gyarados also makes solid check for Gengar without Thunderbolt, as best neutral hit Gengar may dish out against you (which is Specs Shadow Ball) has only 13% chance to 2OHKO you with SR up. Substitute versions are easily dealt with, however Trick is annoyance, which don't help you.

Infernape is beaten 100% of time, if it doesn't run physical electric attack (and it's really rare) or if it doesn't run SD set. NP Mixape deals... 31% max with Nasty Plotted Grass Knot, which is quite impressive. And Close Combat with Intimidiate deals laughable damage, so yeah, you win ;).

Interesting thing is, that you still may check Lucario and now even better, as Specs Lucario can only 2OHKO with HP Rock and only if SR is up. Without it, it's impossible. +1 Close Combat deals 34.3% - 40.4%, so you may switch in and Roar it out. You loose to Stone Edge versions, but physically bulky Gyara has the same problem, so it doesn't matter.

Scizor also has similar problem, as it deals 21.6% - 25.6% with +1 Bullet Punch and you also may Roar it out, so you still deal quite well with physical attackers if you need to. The best what Scizor can do is 33.8% - 39.8% with +1 Night Slash.

Another interesting thing is that Life Orb Heatran with HP Electric deals... 73.1% - 86.3% damage, which is quite nice. Again SR is annoying, but still it's not bad. Without it you only have problems with Explosion.

Situation with Latias is interesting, as you may also check it, however Specs Draco Meteor 2OHKoes you, so it may be troublesome in some situations. Thunderbolt is also dangerous, but you may check few versions, especially when Latias like to run HP Fire to deal with Scizor. Offensive Latias with Life Orb deals 31.2% - 36.8% with Dragon Pulse, so you may Roar it out again, however you can't beat it one on one unfortunately.

Anyway I really like this set. I may also add that Max Atk Machamp can't 2OHKO you with DynamicPunch with SR up, and it's only 4OHKO without it, if you count recovery from Leftovers. Without this Gyarados Infernape would easily deal with this team, so I keep it up. Also Intimidiate is really nice ability to work with, especially when I face troublesome opponents like DDMence or SDHeracross. Also I needed another fight resist, when Rotom fails me. And it's really funny to see when HP Electric defensive Vaporeon deals maximum 40% damage ;). If someone wants to try it - go on ;).

Calculations thanks to Smogon's Calculator ;).

Electric attacks goes to Swampert, Rotom, Blissey (special).

Blissey @ Leftovers
Bold Nature
EVs: 252 Def / 80 SpA / 176 SpD
- Wish
- Protect
- Toxic
- Flamethrower

We all know how annoying Blissey is (for opponents) and important for stall teams pink blob is. Blissey is the best special wall in game and no one argues otherwise. Her job in this team is easy - to take special hits from powerfull attackers like Latias or Jolteon and pass Wishes to other members of this team, especially Swampert, which lacks any good recovery outside of Rest. Anyway, spread is quite standard, however I think of replacing Toxic for Seismic Toss, but Toxic is also fine right now. Anyway, she's effective in her job and there's nothing which could even think of replacing her.

Fighting Attacks goes to Gyarados, Rotom-H.

Swampert @ Leftovers
Relaxed Nature
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpD
- Stealth Rock
- Earthquake
- Ice Beam
- Roar

Swampert. My check to pokemon like Tyranitar, SDInfernape, Aggron, SDGliscor, Gyarados without Taunt and few others threats, which he handles really nice. His unique Water/Ground typing gives him few handy resistances (rock and fire being the most usefull) and only one weakness to grass types and has bulk to take hits from both sides, which my team really needed. Without him, Swords Dance Infernape would run through this team like knife goes through butter. I didn't want to put all entry hazards on Forretress, so I gave him Stealth Rock, which he throws with solid comfort. Ice Beam is for nasty dragon-types, bulky grounds and Gliscor, which dislikes taking super-effective ice attacks. Roar is for shuffling and with Gyarados I may shuffle opponents pokemon for a bit of time, building up residual damage from entry hazards. Earthquake is for reliable STAB. Anyway, he does his job. Good, defensive pokemon.

Grass Attacks goes to Blissey (special), Gyarados (yes, Gyarados handles all grass-type hits expect Specs Leaf Storm from Roserade) and Jirachi.

Jirachi @ Choice Scarf
Jolly Nature
EVs: 252 Atk / 252 Spe / 4 HP
- Iron Head
- Ice Punch
- Fire Punch
- Thunder Punch

This is where my team starts to be more offensive. ScarfRachi is really good user of Scarf. He may switch on many resist like Rock, Ice or Dragon and threaten his opponents with speed and super-effective coverage, which Jirachi provides. Iron Head is for STAB and good, solid flinch-hax. Jirachi is also my last-resort against SDLuke, SDScizor or DDTar, when one of my checks/counters goes down and he does his job. However the most important reason I'm using it is Trick - crippling bulky pokemon with boosting moves like Snorlax and Suicune is really neccesary to stop them from rampaging through my team. If you can't use Perish Song or you lack place for Perish Song user, Trick is quite solid replacement to stop them. I send him only when neccesary and when I scout opponents team (thanks to shuffling from Swampert and Gyarados it's not that hard) to see if he has Magnezone to stop me. Also I'm doing alot double switches, so I can avoid Magnezone trapping me. Anyway, stall teams hates Trick users - true, but not mine ;). This guy absorb it pretty well. But even if he goes down there's still one more slot. And this slot is occupied by...

Well, now I'll try to play without Trick to see if I really need it. However I feel I'll get it back sooner or later.

Fire Attacks goes to Swampert, Gyarados, Blissey (special)
Earth Attacks goes to Gyarados, Rotom-H.

Rotom-H @ Leftovers
Bold Nature
EVs: 252 HP / 152 Def / 100 SDef / 4 Spe
- Shadow Ball
- Thunderbolt
- Substitute
- Will-O-Wisp

Ghost Attacks goes to Blissey, Gyarados
Dark Attacks goes to Blissey (special), Gyarados, Swampert (physical)

Rotom-H... probably the best ghost type in OU tier and for a good reason - solid speed, good defences (and great resistances to back them up) and solid attacking power makes it dangerous opponent for any type of team. I tested in this spot SubCharge Rotom (which for me didn't work here), defensive one (worked fine, however I felt that something else to cripple stat-upper like Suicune would be nice to have) so I'm testing right now another Choice Scarfer with Trick. And it works, but I'm ready to get back defensive version, if you think it's better idea. Pretty simple set - it checks few dangerous metagame opponents like SDLuke, Heracross and DDGyarados, which he hits for super-effective damage. It may be pursuit bait, however I love to use double switches, which helps me to avoid any puirsuit users like Tyranitar, so it's not that troublesome. Also having another Trick user is pretty good bonus, which makes teams based on setting-up statistics surpisingly easy to deal with. Also Hyper Offense teams has troubles to go through Jirachi and Rotom-H combo. It also stops Taunt Skarmory cold, against which stallish like team seriously struggles. If the uses Taunt, I just switch out to Swampert, as most TauntMory users pairs it with Scarf/Band TTar, which to be honest is quite predictible. Also I needed spin blocker and Rotom-H helps here alot. But I'm ready to replace or change set if you think there's a better choice here.

I came back to defensive set, just to see how things works, but it doesn't make big differences in my winning or loosing streak. However with defensive version I feel a bit safer in keeping some threats in check.

Anyway, here is it - team with mix of heavy and semi-stall, which I really enjoy to play. Anyway dealing with two Roar and Trick users is annoying and that combination helps me to deal with any kind of team. Thanks alot for any rates and help, I appreciate it ;). Cheers.

 

[Garganator]

Threats list coming soon..Threat list


Defensive Threats

Blissey - Trick it with Jirachi or Rotom, not a problem. bitch to sleep.

Umbreon - Blissey may Toxic it and from there I just phaze it.

Bronzong - Rotom Overheats, Trick is always there, Gyarados beats it 1on1. Not a problem.

Celebi - Not a problem, except Leech Seed versions, they're annoying. But that's it - annoying. I can still play around it, however I hate Leech Seed.

Cresselia - Blissey uses Toxic and stalls it out. Rotom-H beats versions without T-Wave. Jirachi may Trick. No problema.

Forretress - Rotom-H Overheat, Jirachi Fire Punches, it doesn't threaten my phazers. No problem.

Gliscor - Gyarados deals with it (expect Swords Dance), Swords Dancer it beaten by Swampert, Jirachi Ice Punches it. No problemo.

Tentacruel - Swampert, Rotom-H. Well, it absorbs Toxic Spikes, however my phazers laugh on it. No problema.

Dusknoir - Gyarados takes any version without ThuderPunch, doesn't mind WoW and phaze it. Trick also do the job, Rotom-H takes it out with Shadow Ball. No problem.

Gyarados - Rotom-H Thunderbolts it, Swampert Roars it out (except Taunt versions of course). No problem.

Hippowdon - Swampert Ice Beam, Gyarados Roar is faster than Hippos, Rotom may Trick it if neccesary, Forry throws Spikes and T-Spikes on it, if it lacks Roar. No problem.

Jirachi - Jirachi and Rotom-H absorbs Trick and both of them can win 1vs1 with Fire Punch/Overheat. Swampert beats it without Grass Knot. No problem.

Rotom-A - Blissey, however Trick may be annoying if I mispredict. Swampert can handle Hydro Pump WITHOUT Rain.

Skarmory - I changed my mind. Skarmory (specially defensive) is a bitch to take down. I must do something with this as Rotom doesn't fix that problem.

Snorlax - My only hope is Trick, especially Curselax. Fortunately I have it in my arsenal.

Suicune - Same strategy like with Snorlax, Trick it with Scarf and finish it with Blissey.

Swampert - Toxic Spikes deals with it, Gyarados Roars it faster then Swampert itself (with both -1 priority, faster pokemon wins). Forretress Spikes on it, especially without Roar.

Tyranitar - Swampert, Iron Head Jirachi.

Vaporeon - If Toxic Spikes are up, ironically Gyarados. Blissey also work fine. Rotom-H may Thunderbolt it. Swampert may Roar it out. No problemo.

Zapdos - Blissey is my first switch and she works fine. Rotom may come in and revenge kill it with Shadow Ball, when Zapdos is at low health. Swampert walls all versions without HP Grass. In desperate situation Jirachi Trick it, survives Heat Have and from there I may work. SubRoost Zapdos may be annoying, but only it.

Offensive Threats

Azelf - Blissey and I switch out to Rotom-H to absorb Explosion. Swampert handles rare physical versions fine. No problem, if my timing is right.

Breloom - Gyarados absorbs sleep and may Roar it out. Rotom-H Overheat/Shadow Balls, Jirachi Fire Punches. May be annoying, but not often it happens.

Gengar - Blissey handles Gengar without Focus Punch fine, SubPuncher can't break through Gyarados anytime soon. If I smell Trick, I go to Jirachi, Jirachi may flinch-hax it with Iron Head, Rotom-H may revenge kill it with Shadow Ball. Many options, no problem.

Gyarados - Rotom-H Thunderbolts, Swampert Roars out. I may play with Intimidiate if neccesary. I handle it fine.

Heatran - Blissey, Swampert, Gyarados. Heatran doesn't stand a chance.

Dragonite - Simple Dragon Dancer isn't troublesome, Bulky DDNite is annoying as hell. Ironically Dragon Claw version is much harder to handle then Outrage. Fortunately it's rare.

Aerodactyl - Interesting opponent. I just Rapid Spin with Forry to see how it reacts. In this situation they switch out or try to attack me. Swampert easily handles it, Jirachi may flinch-hax it to death. No problem.

Infernape - Special version are easily dealt with Gyarados, Swords Dancer goes down when it meets Swampert. Rotom-H may revenge kill it with Shadow Ball when it doesn't have full hp.

Jolteon - Blissey, Blissey, Blissey. Swampert may switch on everything except HP Grass.

Ninjask - Gyarados Roars, Swampert Roars. One of the easiest things to beat.

Porygon-z - Blissey says yo, Jirachi, Rotom-H and Gyarados can handle some hits if really neccesary.

Rhyperior - Swampert. Jirachi may revenge kill it at low health.

Smeargle - Gyarados absorbs sleep, Forretress after this may come in and set one or two set of spikes. Rapid Spins them two of course. Only Trick may mess me up, if I mispredict. No problem.

Heracross - Rotom-H checks, Gyarados with Wish also checks. Jirachi may revenge-kill it.

Latias - First switch is Blissey, after this I switch to Jirachi to absorb Trick. However Blissey handles it, Gyarados Roars out all versions without Thunderbolt.

Kingdra - My best bet is Gyarados, Swampert handles physical versions, Blissey special ones. With mixed I play around with switches, I can handle it.

Lucario - Rotom-H checks, Jirachi revenge kills, Gyarados survives one hit and Roar it out. Not that bad.

Machamp - Substitute + 3 attacks I play with Intimidiate from Gyarados and Rotom-H. Rest/Sleep Talker isn't troublesome. Choice Bander may be a bitch if user predicts wright. Annoying, but that's it.

Magnezone - Blissey, Swampert, Rotom-H. Fine.

Mamoswine - Without Stone Edge, Gyarados works fine. Intimidiate + smart switches do the job. Jirachi and Rotom-H revenge kills. Life Orb may be annoying.

Metagross - Swampert, Rotom-H, Gyarados (without ThunderPunch). It has problems with my team.

Salamence - Jirachi is my initial switch, MixMence is really easy to deal with, DDMence is annoying, but only with perfect prediction from opponents side.

Electivire - Swampert, Rotom-H. Why people use it ?

Flygon - Swampert is first check, Jirachi and Forry absorbs Outraged with solid comfort.

Togekiss - Blissey beats it. If I face stall-breaker, Trick is neccesary.

Weavile - Swampert, Gyarados, Forretress, Jirachi revenge kills it. Poor guy.

Scizor - Someone mentions that Scizor may give me some problem. To be honest I don't have any problems. Maybe it's strange, but I don't have. But I guess with good support it may threaten me.

Starmie - Blissey, Rotom-H. I need to watch out here to not loose entry hazards, but offensively it can't threaten me.

Tyranitar - Swampert. Jirachi may flinch-hax it with Iron Head.

 

[The SPrinkLer]

The only thing I'm going to say is really a preference thing. Why are you running Jirachi and Rotom as scarfers? Jirachi handles any Gyarados just fine, so personally, I'd run a RestTalk Rotom over your current set. Gyarados doesn't take on the Physical attackers as well as anyone would like thanks to its specially defensive spread. Thanks to the lack of healing and without Wish support, something like a Scizor, with the proper support, could have way with your team. Rotom will at least be able to switch into Scizor and friends more efficiently, and be able to recover off the damage. Here's the set:

Rotom @ Leftovers
Bold l 252 HP/ 120 Def/ 136 SpD
Discharge/ Will-o-Wisp/ Rest/ Sleep Talk

The EVs provide a balance of Def and SpD, so you can still counter Physical attackers and stop Rapid Spin from shit like Starmie. I hope this helps, and good luck with the team!

 

[IK.]

Hi,

Just a minor nitpick. I know that the analysis says different, but Forretress really wants 252 HP / 252 SDef / Def with Careful. Forretress is already physically bulky enough without the Def EV's and the the SDef EV's really help Forry takes hits on the special side extremely well. Also, Atk EV's on Forretress is almost useless because you want to focus on your defenses more than the other stats on a defensive Pokemon like Forry.

On Rotom, you should really go to a defensive type of Rotom, preferably a RestTalking one. You really don't need two scarfers that basically do the same thing. Something like this should work better for your team

Rotom-h @ Leftovers
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 HP/172 Def/100 SDef/4 Spe
Bold nature (+Def, -Atk)
- Thunderbolt
- Will-O-Wisp / Shadow Ball
- Rest
- Sleep Talk

Rotom is the best spin blocker in the game, no doubt. Rest + Sleep talk lets you live longer. Thunderbolt is there for a strong stab attack. WoW or Shadow Ball is your call, as WoW may become redundant because of Toxic Spikes on the field, but it may be helpful for things such as Scizor. Shadow Ball can be used to hit other Rotom-A's. Max HP for survivability, the Def and SDef EV's focus more on defense but still give you some bulk on the special side. 4 Speed EV's to outspeed other Rotom-A's.

Good luck with your team!

 

[Garganator]

The only thing I'm going to say is really a preference thing. Why are you running Jirachi and Rotom as scarfers? Jirachi handles any Gyarados just fine, so personally, I'd run a RestTalk Rotom over your current set. Gyarados doesn't take on the Physical attackers as well as anyone would like thanks to its specially defensive spread. Thanks to the lack of healing and without Wish support, something like a Scizor, with the proper support, could have way with your team. Rotom will at least be able to switch into Scizor and friends more efficiently, and be able to recover off the damage. Here's the set:

Rotom @ Leftovers
Bold l 252 HP/ 120 Def/ 136 SpD
Discharge/ Will-o-Wisp/ Rest/ Sleep Talk

The EVs provide a balance of Def and SpD, so you can still counter Physical attackers and stop Rapid Spin from shit like Starmie. I hope this helps, and good luck with the team!

I explained the reason in thread for two Trick users, but I repeat ;). Reason is simple - I see quite often some bulky, semi-stall teams that has more then one Calm Mind/Curse user. I don't have Perish Song user, so I need to play around it in other way. I make up for this with Trick users. In other words I didn't felt safe with depending on only one Trick user to stop them if I face them. If opponents has more then one set-up pokemon and bulky at this - it's gg. Maybe it's overpreparation, but I feel that it works. But yeah, I also used defensive Rotom-H and it also was fine. Thanks for suggestion, but I don't like using more then one sleep talker, they're a bit too unreliable, but I guess I'll go back to defensive Rotom-H. And with Scizor it's quite interesting, as it mostly switches on Blissey and almost always I use Wish at first. With Wish up, Forretress, Gyarados, Rotom-H and even Swampert can handle U-Turns all day long. However with Blissey gone, I see little problem here, so I may go back to defensive Rotom-H, why not. Thanks for rate.

Just a minor nitpick. I know that the analysis says different, but Forretress really wants 252 HP / 252 SDef / Def with Careful. Forretress is already physically bulky enough without the Def EV's and the the SDef EV's really help Forry takes hits on the special side extremely well. Also, Atk EV's on Forretress is almost useless because you want to focus on your defenses more than the other stats on a defensive Pokemon like Forry.

I thought about using specially defensive spread, so I'll go with it, if you suggest ;).

 

[Garganator]

Normally I would go with Swampert lead (and most players also), unfortunately with Swampert opponent is almost guarranteed to have stealth rock up, which I seriously dislike. However Forry doesn't work much better, so I think it's better idea anyway.

About Rotom - I'm coming back to defensive version like in past after all. I needed some opinion if it's worth to come back. If you say yes, then why not ;). However double Trick is evil by itself ;).

 

[Limitless]

Make Swampert lead, Forretress is gonna get handicapped for the entire match, guaranteed.

Alright, I may as well start my rate here. Foretress is fine as a lead so long as you switch Toxic Spikes to Gyro Ball. I don't really see the use for Toxic Spikes since you're able to just stall the opponent out anyways, and I believe Gyro Ball will help you that much more. Additionally, I doubt you were getting all five layers up anyways, which seems like more of a waist. Now, the beauty of Gyro Ball when you're leading is that when you're versing Aerodactyl, you're able to Gyro Ball while they Taunt and then Rapid Spin while they Stealth Rock. This effectively puts you in a situation where you're leading the match 6-5 and with Stealth Rock not getting on the field, something that Gyarados will find quite helpful.

For your Jirachi, I suggest that you switch Trick to Thunderpunch. The reason I say this is because I'm going to be changing your Rotom also, so Gyarados will be something you want extra coverage over. In regards to Suicune, I believe that the trade off between Trick and Thunderpunch is going to be minescule since you're having Thunderpunch, Thunderbolt (from Rotom, will be explained later in the rate), and smart playing with Spikes + Roar. Bulky walls such as Blissey should not be a problem either since your team is full of bulky Pokemon that can restore their health and fight back. Toxic doesn't really affect most of them either, as most are Rest/Sleep Talk. Also, I'd change the EVs to 252 Att / 252 Spe / 4 HP. I don't really see why you have Jirachi so bulky, as the main point of Jirachi there is for instant offense and assurance.

I'd switch Rotom to a more defensive version. I don't particularly see why you need Rotom to be Choice Scarf, as you have Jirachi as your insurance policy. I would think that Choice Scarf on Rotom actually makes your team more easily beat by the growing popularity of Choice Scarf Tyranitar. Therefore, what I'd suggest is that you switch the set to Thunderbolt / Rest / Sleep Talk / WoW. This should give you good defensive coverage and should allow you to stall even better. Tyranitar is also less abusive to the team and will allow you to inhibit more status upon things that Blissey is simply not able to use Toxic on.

The last thing that I'm going to suggest is Seismic Toss over Flamethrower on Blissey. The only two reasons that you'd have Flamethrower are for Foretress or Scizor. Foretress should be easily handled so long as you play smartly with Rotom + Foretress. The latter, however, is not even an issue since Gyarados + Rotom will simply shut down any variant of Scizor.

I hope this was beneficial and good luck with the team.

 

[Garganator]

Alright, I may as well start my rate here. Foretress is fine as a lead so long as you switch Toxic Spikes to Gyro Ball. I don't really see the use for Toxic Spikes since you're able to just stall the opponent out anyways, and I believe Gyro Ball will help you that much more. Additionally, I doubt you were getting all five layers up anyways, which seems like more of a waist. Now, the beauty of Gyro Ball when you're leading is that when you're versing Aerodactyl, you're able to Gyro Ball while they Taunt and then Rapid Spin while they Stealth Rock. This effectively puts you in a situation where you're leading the match 6-5 and with Stealth Rock not getting on the field, something that Gyarados will find quite helpful.

Well... Toxic Spikes sometimes were really helpfull, but yeah, having 5 spikes on battlefield happened... once. That's all, so I'll try Gyro Ball, just to see how it work. Also having something to hit Salamence with is always good to have when it Outrages. I guess that's it.

For your Jirachi, I suggest that you switch Trick to Thunderpunch. The reason I say this is because I'm going to be changing your Rotom also, so Gyarados will be something you want extra coverage over. In regards to Suicune, I believe that the trade off between Trick and Thunderpunch is going to be minescule since you're having Thunderpunch, Thunderbolt (from Rotom, will be explained later in the rate), and smart playing with Spikes + Roar. Bulky walls such as Blissey should not be a problem either since your team is full of bulky Pokemon that can restore their health and fight back. Toxic doesn't really affect most of them either, as most are Rest/Sleep Talk. Also, I'd change the EVs to 252 Att / 252 Spe / 4 HP. I don't really see why you have Jirachi so bulky, as the main point of Jirachi there is for instant offense and assurance.

That HP EVs are obvious typo, so sorry for that mistake (and I think everyone see this as a mistake :P). Of course it's Max Speed/Max Atk ;). The only sleep talker I have is Gyarados, but yeah, status isn't a problem anyway with Blissey and RestTalk Gyarados. To be honest I may Roar those Suicunes and Snorlaxes, but to be honest if they use Rest in good moment, I can't outstall them, it's impossible, especially when they use someone with Aromatherapy. CroCune is bulky enough to set-up on Rotom-H (only crit may stop him) so I don't think it's a good idea. Why Rotom-H doesn't learn Taunt x_x, it would make things much easier. And Jirachi does laughable damage to Suicune with T-Punch, so I don't think it's a good idea also. Stall teams use Perish song for a good reason - When Curselax/Crocune is alone, it 6-0 many team when they're last as they can't hurt them. Trick is my only way to stop them, when someone like this happens. I think I would like to find here place for Machamp, but I'm not sure where.

The last thing that I'm going to suggest is Seismic Toss over Flamethrower on Blissey. The only two reasons that you'd have Flamethrower are for Foretress or Scizor. Foretress should be easily handled so long as you play smartly with Rotom + Foretress. The latter, however, is not even an issue since Gyarados + Rotom will simply shut down any variant of Scizor.

SubCharge would 6-0 me without Flamethrower and only Swampert could Roar it out and still it's only temporary stop as I can't hurt him seriously with Swampert. It would be easier with Spikes affecting him, unfortunately it's not the case here.

And yeah, I already switched out Rotom-H to defensive version, I wrote it earlier, I just need to edit it in first post.

About double Trick - I explained it earlier few times (it was insurance against bulky Calm Minders/Cursers), but I changed to defensive version anyway. With double Trick I dealt easily with stall teams (which are the most dangerous to deal with), so I may come back to this playing if I feel it. But I guess one Trick is enough, I don't see more then one pokemon like this on teams.

Anyway thx for the rate.

 

[Pride]

I see you switched to a more defensive rotom which I agree is the best decision. But...

Rotom @ Leftovers
Timid Nature
EVs: 252 HP / 172 Def / 100 SpD / 4 Spe
- Shadow Ball
- Thunderbolt
- Overheat
- Will-O-Wisp

Thats over 510 so Im guessing you meant... 252 HP / 152 Def / 100 SpDef / 4 Spe. Either way with Timid that ev spread is still wasting points: 252 HP / 72 Def / 100 SpD / 84 Spe with Bold gives you the same speed but 5 extra points in defense. If you do have Bold but forgot to change it in the thread then disregard this.

Rotom is so versatile that you could run subcharge, rest talk, or sub wow and still be very effective. I'd really consider Sub over Overheat on Rotom.

Also if you are not going to get rid of Trick, which I believe you should, then please go with TPunch over Ice Punch on Jirachi. With Iron Head you still handle Latias and Sally well enough and you have Swampert as a check to sally either way. TPunch allows you to still beat Gyarados even if rotom goes down to pursuit. You really need that TPunch to reliably keep gyarados away.

 

[Garganator]

Thats over 510 so Im guessing you meant... 252 HP / 152 Def / 100 SpDef / 4 Spe. Either way with Timid that ev spread is still wasting points: 252 HP / 72 Def / 100 SpD / 84 Spe with Bold gives you the same speed but 5 extra points in defense. If you do have Bold but forgot to change it in the thread then disregard this.

Rotom is so versatile that you could run subcharge, rest talk, or sub wow and still be very effective. I'd really consider Sub over Overheat on Rotom.

Also if you are not going to get rid of Trick, which I believe you should, then please go with TPunch over Ice Punch on Jirachi. With Iron Head you still handle Latias and Sally well enough and you have Swampert as a check to sally either way. TPunch allows you to still beat Gyarados even if rotom goes down to pursuit. You really need that TPunch to reliably keep gyarados away.

Man, my mistakes in last two days... yeah, both of those (nature and EVs) are my typo again ;). Sorry for those. To be honest I thought that Overheat is a bit redundant (and special attack drop is Pursuit bait), so I'll just try to use substitute for good scouting purposes. I tried SubCharge Rotom-H, but to be honest I didn't felt it works here. About Jirachi - I'll try to play without Trick, but to be honest I smell trouble, but having T-Punch is always nice, as Gyarados could give me trouble without Rotom-H, one good Pursuit and only way to stop Gyarados is to Roar it out with Swampert (and against Taunt it's impossible).

Thx for rate.