Hello again. I'm posting this team, with little inspiration from semi-stall thread, but I gave it a bit of my individual touch and wanted to try Specially Defensive RestTalk Gyarados. So far I'm satisfied with results, but I feel it may be better and still I think I have few problems. Anyway, here it is ;). I hope you'll like it.
Team Building Process:
For first I was really curios to test Jabba's suggestion of Specially Defensive Gyarados and give it a try. In battles I has I'm totally satisfied with it, so I don't think I need to replace it anytime soon. At first idea with this team was to set up Spikes and stall out as much as possible to let ScarfHeatran end game with late game sweep. However, I felt that ScarfTran didn't work that well as I wanted him to work. So I replace him with Jirachi and changed team on a bit more defensive way. Anyway, this team is based to deal as much as possible passive damage and finish game with ChargeSub Rotom-H (however right now I'm using defensive Rotom and rely a bit more on passive damage).
At first as I said before I put in this team 252 HP/252 SpD Careful Gyarados. It keeps at bay few dangerous opponents like Infernape, Heatran, no-Thunderbolt Gengar and Kingdra and also may act as a check to Scizor and Lucario if it's neccesary. Anyway, I like this guy as he do what I expected him to do. I don't think I need to replace him and without him my team would be slaughtered by Infernape, which isn't sexy. But still even with his impressive bulk Stealth Rock was annoying and it still dislikes tanking powerfull physical hits like Outrage from Salamence, so I thought of adding obvious steel type pokemon, which may also put some entry hazard on field and Rapid Spin those annoying rocks. The answer is obvious - Forretress
When I put Forretress on this team (on lead spot) to keep opponent from putting rocks up early which I felt I needed to keep Gyarados in perfect condition on early stage of matches. However, tanking some special hits, especially those of electric type was neccesary, as Forretress can't handle sickly strong Thunderbolts from the likes of Jolteon or Zapdos, so I needed dedicated speciall wall. Also something to pass wish was something, that my team needed. So I added without hesistation (ok, I dislike her, but yeah, she's a beast on what she's doing) the best special wall in game - Pink Blob named Blissey.
With secured special attacks from special side, I saw one glaring weakness - Tyranitar, especially Dragon Dancer could set-up and demolish this team with combination of Stone Edge + Fire Punch, making it extremely hard to stop. Also facing Metagross would be troublesome, as Gyarados is only semi reliable (T-Punch isn't that rare on Metagross, so losing it would be bad) check on this team. So finally, I added something that checks both Metagross and Tyranitar, while being good counter to SDApe, which would annihilate me otherwise. So Swampert lands here and another phazer is nice bonus to have on teams like this. Also Swampert absorbs electric attack, especially physical ones, which Blissey dislikes.
However any good stall team can't ignore threat of Hyper Offense teams, especially those who abuse dragons and SD Heracross, which would give more then few troubles. The main problem I see with standard stall teams is that combination of few Dragon Dancers and lack of speed problem in taking repeated hits. At first I put ScarfTran in that spot, but I felt it's a bit slow and I have more then enough pokemon with similar resistances like Heatran and being forced to use HP Electric on Swampert was a bit ridiculous in my opinion. So I switched him with ScarfJirachi, which does the job in stopping few dragon dancers and it also absorb some dragon-type attacks and thanks to Wish he may do it more then once. I also gave him Trick to stop few Cursers/Calm Minder like Suicune or Snorlax if neccesary.
And of course in the last spot I needed something to stop Rapid Spinners from spinning entry hazards away and something to secure that I'm safe against Gyarados and E-Vire, if Swampert fails to stop them earlier or when something unexpected would like to stop me. The choice is obvious, however I would love to have something with Taunt here to have something else to stop dangerous set-up sweeper like Suicune or Snorlax, when Trick from Jirachi fails me. At first I had SubCharge Rotom-H, but I felt that he didn't work that well, so I just put more defensive version. Yep, Rotom-H lands here to secure few more threats when neccesary. Also something to absorb Explosion is nice to have ;). I was curious if two trick users could work, so I made another change to ScarfRotom to see how it works.
Forretress @ Shed Shell
Careful Nature
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpD
- Rapid Spin
- PayBack
- Spikes
- Gyro Ball
Pretty standard Forretress set. I wanted on lead something that could stop entry hazards from going down. There are two ways for this - to use Taunt user or to use Rapid Spin to prevent any Spikes or Stealth Rock from landing on field. Also I needed something with Rapid Spin as Toxic Spikes aren't great news for me and Gyarados still doesn't enjoy Stealth Rock, so I chose Forry for this job. Also having something to throw entry hazards early in is nice way to start match. Shed Shell is for something like Magnezone, which would otherwise totally annihilate poor Forretress. However I don't feel it works like I would like it to work. But I don't have any idea for change on this spot. At first I had physically defensive EVs, but I really wished for specially defensive spread, so I'll go with it like someone suggested ;). Another change is T-Spikes for Gyro Ball to see how it works.
Fire Attacks goes to Gyarados, Swampert, Blissey (special).
Gyarados @ Leftovers
Careful Nature
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpD
- Rest
- Sleep Talk
- Roar
- Waterfall
Specially Defensive Gyarados... that's right, specially defensive. I was really curious to test it out after JabbaTheGriffin's suggestion and I need to say - I really like how it works. His unique typing and usefull resistances makes it really interesting choice for balanced and stall like teams. Anyway, it would be best to quote myself from "The value of Sleep Talk" thread, as some calculations are interesting enough. It also handles physical threats, which makes this Gyarados solid mixed wall.
Calculations thanks to Smogon's Calculator ;).
Electric attacks goes to Swampert, Rotom, Blissey (special).
Blissey @ Leftovers
Bold Nature
EVs: 252 Def / 80 SpA / 176 SpD
- Wish
- Protect
- Toxic
- Flamethrower
We all know how annoying Blissey is (for opponents) and important for stall teams pink blob is. Blissey is the best special wall in game and no one argues otherwise. Her job in this team is easy - to take special hits from powerfull attackers like Latias or Jolteon and pass Wishes to other members of this team, especially Swampert, which lacks any good recovery outside of Rest. Anyway, spread is quite standard, however I think of replacing Toxic for Seismic Toss, but Toxic is also fine right now. Anyway, she's effective in her job and there's nothing which could even think of replacing her.
Fighting Attacks goes to Gyarados, Rotom-H.
Swampert @ Leftovers
Relaxed Nature
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpD
- Stealth Rock
- Earthquake
- Ice Beam
- Roar
Swampert. My check to pokemon like Tyranitar, SDInfernape, Aggron, SDGliscor, Gyarados without Taunt and few others threats, which he handles really nice. His unique Water/Ground typing gives him few handy resistances (rock and fire being the most usefull) and only one weakness to grass types and has bulk to take hits from both sides, which my team really needed. Without him, Swords Dance Infernape would run through this team like knife goes through butter. I didn't want to put all entry hazards on Forretress, so I gave him Stealth Rock, which he throws with solid comfort. Ice Beam is for nasty dragon-types, bulky grounds and Gliscor, which dislikes taking super-effective ice attacks. Roar is for shuffling and with Gyarados I may shuffle opponents pokemon for a bit of time, building up residual damage from entry hazards. Earthquake is for reliable STAB. Anyway, he does his job. Good, defensive pokemon.
Grass Attacks goes to Blissey (special), Gyarados (yes, Gyarados handles all grass-type hits expect Specs Leaf Storm from Roserade) and Jirachi.
Jirachi @ Choice Scarf
Jolly Nature
EVs: 252 Atk / 252 Spe / 4 HP
- Iron Head
- Ice Punch
- Fire Punch
- Thunder Punch
This is where my team starts to be more offensive. ScarfRachi is really good user of Scarf. He may switch on many resist like Rock, Ice or Dragon and threaten his opponents with speed and super-effective coverage, which Jirachi provides. Iron Head is for STAB and good, solid flinch-hax. Jirachi is also my last-resort against SDLuke, SDScizor or DDTar, when one of my checks/counters goes down and he does his job. However the most important reason I'm using it is Trick - crippling bulky pokemon with boosting moves like Snorlax and Suicune is really neccesary to stop them from rampaging through my team. If you can't use Perish Song or you lack place for Perish Song user, Trick is quite solid replacement to stop them. I send him only when neccesary and when I scout opponents team (thanks to shuffling from Swampert and Gyarados it's not that hard) to see if he has Magnezone to stop me. Also I'm doing alot double switches, so I can avoid Magnezone trapping me. Anyway, stall teams hates Trick users - true, but not mine ;). This guy absorb it pretty well. But even if he goes down there's still one more slot. And this slot is occupied by...
Well, now I'll try to play without Trick to see if I really need it. However I feel I'll get it back sooner or later.
Fire Attacks goes to Swampert, Gyarados, Blissey (special)
Earth Attacks goes to Gyarados, Rotom-H.
Rotom-H @ Leftovers
Bold Nature
EVs: 252 HP / 152 Def / 100 SDef / 4 Spe
- Shadow Ball
- Thunderbolt
- Substitute
- Will-O-Wisp
Ghost Attacks goes to Blissey, Gyarados
Dark Attacks goes to Blissey (special), Gyarados, Swampert (physical)
Rotom-H... probably the best ghost type in OU tier and for a good reason - solid speed, good defences (and great resistances to back them up) and solid attacking power makes it dangerous opponent for any type of team. I tested in this spot SubCharge Rotom (which for me didn't work here), defensive one (worked fine, however I felt that something else to cripple stat-upper like Suicune would be nice to have) so I'm testing right now another Choice Scarfer with Trick. And it works, but I'm ready to get back defensive version, if you think it's better idea. Pretty simple set - it checks few dangerous metagame opponents like SDLuke, Heracross and DDGyarados, which he hits for super-effective damage. It may be pursuit bait, however I love to use double switches, which helps me to avoid any puirsuit users like Tyranitar, so it's not that troublesome. Also having another Trick user is pretty good bonus, which makes teams based on setting-up statistics surpisingly easy to deal with. Also Hyper Offense teams has troubles to go through Jirachi and Rotom-H combo. It also stops Taunt Skarmory cold, against which stallish like team seriously struggles. If the uses Taunt, I just switch out to Swampert, as most TauntMory users pairs it with Scarf/Band TTar, which to be honest is quite predictible. Also I needed spin blocker and Rotom-H helps here alot. But I'm ready to replace or change set if you think there's a better choice here.
I came back to defensive set, just to see how things works, but it doesn't make big differences in my winning or loosing streak. However with defensive version I feel a bit safer in keeping some threats in check.
Anyway, here is it - team with mix of heavy and semi-stall, which I really enjoy to play. Anyway dealing with two Roar and Trick users is annoying and that combination helps me to deal with any kind of team. Thanks alot for any rates and help, I appreciate it ;). Cheers.
Team Building Process:
For first I was really curios to test Jabba's suggestion of Specially Defensive Gyarados and give it a try. In battles I has I'm totally satisfied with it, so I don't think I need to replace it anytime soon. At first idea with this team was to set up Spikes and stall out as much as possible to let ScarfHeatran end game with late game sweep. However, I felt that ScarfTran didn't work that well as I wanted him to work. So I replace him with Jirachi and changed team on a bit more defensive way. Anyway, this team is based to deal as much as possible passive damage and finish game with ChargeSub Rotom-H (however right now I'm using defensive Rotom and rely a bit more on passive damage).
At first as I said before I put in this team 252 HP/252 SpD Careful Gyarados. It keeps at bay few dangerous opponents like Infernape, Heatran, no-Thunderbolt Gengar and Kingdra and also may act as a check to Scizor and Lucario if it's neccesary. Anyway, I like this guy as he do what I expected him to do. I don't think I need to replace him and without him my team would be slaughtered by Infernape, which isn't sexy. But still even with his impressive bulk Stealth Rock was annoying and it still dislikes tanking powerfull physical hits like Outrage from Salamence, so I thought of adding obvious steel type pokemon, which may also put some entry hazard on field and Rapid Spin those annoying rocks. The answer is obvious - Forretress
When I put Forretress on this team (on lead spot) to keep opponent from putting rocks up early which I felt I needed to keep Gyarados in perfect condition on early stage of matches. However, tanking some special hits, especially those of electric type was neccesary, as Forretress can't handle sickly strong Thunderbolts from the likes of Jolteon or Zapdos, so I needed dedicated speciall wall. Also something to pass wish was something, that my team needed. So I added without hesistation (ok, I dislike her, but yeah, she's a beast on what she's doing) the best special wall in game - Pink Blob named Blissey.
With secured special attacks from special side, I saw one glaring weakness - Tyranitar, especially Dragon Dancer could set-up and demolish this team with combination of Stone Edge + Fire Punch, making it extremely hard to stop. Also facing Metagross would be troublesome, as Gyarados is only semi reliable (T-Punch isn't that rare on Metagross, so losing it would be bad) check on this team. So finally, I added something that checks both Metagross and Tyranitar, while being good counter to SDApe, which would annihilate me otherwise. So Swampert lands here and another phazer is nice bonus to have on teams like this. Also Swampert absorbs electric attack, especially physical ones, which Blissey dislikes.
However any good stall team can't ignore threat of Hyper Offense teams, especially those who abuse dragons and SD Heracross, which would give more then few troubles. The main problem I see with standard stall teams is that combination of few Dragon Dancers and lack of speed problem in taking repeated hits. At first I put ScarfTran in that spot, but I felt it's a bit slow and I have more then enough pokemon with similar resistances like Heatran and being forced to use HP Electric on Swampert was a bit ridiculous in my opinion. So I switched him with ScarfJirachi, which does the job in stopping few dragon dancers and it also absorb some dragon-type attacks and thanks to Wish he may do it more then once. I also gave him Trick to stop few Cursers/Calm Minder like Suicune or Snorlax if neccesary.
And of course in the last spot I needed something to stop Rapid Spinners from spinning entry hazards away and something to secure that I'm safe against Gyarados and E-Vire, if Swampert fails to stop them earlier or when something unexpected would like to stop me. The choice is obvious, however I would love to have something with Taunt here to have something else to stop dangerous set-up sweeper like Suicune or Snorlax, when Trick from Jirachi fails me. At first I had SubCharge Rotom-H, but I felt that he didn't work that well, so I just put more defensive version. Yep, Rotom-H lands here to secure few more threats when neccesary. Also something to absorb Explosion is nice to have ;). I was curious if two trick users could work, so I made another change to ScarfRotom to see how it works.
Forretress @ Shed Shell
Careful Nature
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpD
- Rapid Spin
- PayBack
- Spikes
- Gyro Ball
Pretty standard Forretress set. I wanted on lead something that could stop entry hazards from going down. There are two ways for this - to use Taunt user or to use Rapid Spin to prevent any Spikes or Stealth Rock from landing on field. Also I needed something with Rapid Spin as Toxic Spikes aren't great news for me and Gyarados still doesn't enjoy Stealth Rock, so I chose Forry for this job. Also having something to throw entry hazards early in is nice way to start match. Shed Shell is for something like Magnezone, which would otherwise totally annihilate poor Forretress. However I don't feel it works like I would like it to work. But I don't have any idea for change on this spot. At first I had physically defensive EVs, but I really wished for specially defensive spread, so I'll go with it like someone suggested ;). Another change is T-Spikes for Gyro Ball to see how it works.
Fire Attacks goes to Gyarados, Swampert, Blissey (special).
Gyarados @ Leftovers
Careful Nature
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpD
- Rest
- Sleep Talk
- Roar
- Waterfall
Specially Defensive Gyarados... that's right, specially defensive. I was really curious to test it out after JabbaTheGriffin's suggestion and I need to say - I really like how it works. His unique typing and usefull resistances makes it really interesting choice for balanced and stall like teams. Anyway, it would be best to quote myself from "The value of Sleep Talk" thread, as some calculations are interesting enough. It also handles physical threats, which makes this Gyarados solid mixed wall.
Anyway I really like this set. I may also add that Max Atk Machamp can't 2OHKO you with DynamicPunch with SR up, and it's only 4OHKO without it, if you count recovery from Leftovers. Without this Gyarados Infernape would easily deal with this team, so I keep it up. Also Intimidiate is really nice ability to work with, especially when I face troublesome opponents like DDMence or SDHeracross. Also I needed another fight resist, when Rotom fails me. And it's really funny to see when HP Electric defensive Vaporeon deals maximum 40% damage ;). If someone wants to try it - go on ;).MixMence 2OHKoes you with Draco Meteor no matter what when Stealth Rock is up. Without it however, Gyarados makes almost perfect Mence check (only fearing CBMence and SpecsMence). When you face DDMence, Intimidiate show it's magic - of course you die to Outrage, but -1 Outrage can't 2OHKo Porygon2, as double Intimidiate kicks in and you outsmarted opponent with this play. And Salamence user is forced to use Outrage or you just Roar him out. Or you just switch in bulky steel to easily eliminate Outraging Salamence. If you can keep SR away from battlefield, this Gyarados makes surprisngly effective Mence check. Forretress is good partner here as you absorb fire attacks aimed on it so easily and Rapid Spin is always great addition here. However, something else for Rotom-H would be nice and Tyranitar works here having good defensive synergy with you.
Gyarados also makes solid check for Gengar without Thunderbolt, as best neutral hit Gengar may dish out against you (which is Specs Shadow Ball) has only 13% chance to 2OHKO you with SR up. Substitute versions are easily dealt with, however Trick is annoyance, which don't help you.
Infernape is beaten 100% of time, if it doesn't run physical electric attack (and it's really rare) or if it doesn't run SD set. NP Mixape deals... 31% max with Nasty Plotted Grass Knot, which is quite impressive. And Close Combat with Intimidiate deals laughable damage, so yeah, you win ;).
Interesting thing is, that you still may check Lucario and now even better, as Specs Lucario can only 2OHKO with HP Rock and only if SR is up. Without it, it's impossible. +1 Close Combat deals 34.3% - 40.4%, so you may switch in and Roar it out. You loose to Stone Edge versions, but physically bulky Gyara has the same problem, so it doesn't matter.
Scizor also has similar problem, as it deals 21.6% - 25.6% with +1 Bullet Punch and you also may Roar it out, so you still deal quite well with physical attackers if you need to. The best what Scizor can do is 33.8% - 39.8% with +1 Night Slash.
Another interesting thing is that Life Orb Heatran with HP Electric deals... 73.1% - 86.3% damage, which is quite nice. Again SR is annoying, but still it's not bad. Without it you only have problems with Explosion.
Situation with Latias is interesting, as you may also check it, however Specs Draco Meteor 2OHKoes you, so it may be troublesome in some situations. Thunderbolt is also dangerous, but you may check few versions, especially when Latias like to run HP Fire to deal with Scizor. Offensive Latias with Life Orb deals 31.2% - 36.8% with Dragon Pulse, so you may Roar it out again, however you can't beat it one on one unfortunately.
Calculations thanks to Smogon's Calculator ;).
Electric attacks goes to Swampert, Rotom, Blissey (special).
Blissey @ Leftovers
Bold Nature
EVs: 252 Def / 80 SpA / 176 SpD
- Wish
- Protect
- Toxic
- Flamethrower
We all know how annoying Blissey is (for opponents) and important for stall teams pink blob is. Blissey is the best special wall in game and no one argues otherwise. Her job in this team is easy - to take special hits from powerfull attackers like Latias or Jolteon and pass Wishes to other members of this team, especially Swampert, which lacks any good recovery outside of Rest. Anyway, spread is quite standard, however I think of replacing Toxic for Seismic Toss, but Toxic is also fine right now. Anyway, she's effective in her job and there's nothing which could even think of replacing her.
Fighting Attacks goes to Gyarados, Rotom-H.
Swampert @ Leftovers
Relaxed Nature
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpD
- Stealth Rock
- Earthquake
- Ice Beam
- Roar
Swampert. My check to pokemon like Tyranitar, SDInfernape, Aggron, SDGliscor, Gyarados without Taunt and few others threats, which he handles really nice. His unique Water/Ground typing gives him few handy resistances (rock and fire being the most usefull) and only one weakness to grass types and has bulk to take hits from both sides, which my team really needed. Without him, Swords Dance Infernape would run through this team like knife goes through butter. I didn't want to put all entry hazards on Forretress, so I gave him Stealth Rock, which he throws with solid comfort. Ice Beam is for nasty dragon-types, bulky grounds and Gliscor, which dislikes taking super-effective ice attacks. Roar is for shuffling and with Gyarados I may shuffle opponents pokemon for a bit of time, building up residual damage from entry hazards. Earthquake is for reliable STAB. Anyway, he does his job. Good, defensive pokemon.
Grass Attacks goes to Blissey (special), Gyarados (yes, Gyarados handles all grass-type hits expect Specs Leaf Storm from Roserade) and Jirachi.
Jirachi @ Choice Scarf
Jolly Nature
EVs: 252 Atk / 252 Spe / 4 HP
- Iron Head
- Ice Punch
- Fire Punch
- Thunder Punch
This is where my team starts to be more offensive. ScarfRachi is really good user of Scarf. He may switch on many resist like Rock, Ice or Dragon and threaten his opponents with speed and super-effective coverage, which Jirachi provides. Iron Head is for STAB and good, solid flinch-hax. Jirachi is also my last-resort against SDLuke, SDScizor or DDTar, when one of my checks/counters goes down and he does his job. However the most important reason I'm using it is Trick - crippling bulky pokemon with boosting moves like Snorlax and Suicune is really neccesary to stop them from rampaging through my team. If you can't use Perish Song or you lack place for Perish Song user, Trick is quite solid replacement to stop them. I send him only when neccesary and when I scout opponents team (thanks to shuffling from Swampert and Gyarados it's not that hard) to see if he has Magnezone to stop me. Also I'm doing alot double switches, so I can avoid Magnezone trapping me. Anyway, stall teams hates Trick users - true, but not mine ;). This guy absorb it pretty well. But even if he goes down there's still one more slot. And this slot is occupied by...
Well, now I'll try to play without Trick to see if I really need it. However I feel I'll get it back sooner or later.
Fire Attacks goes to Swampert, Gyarados, Blissey (special)
Earth Attacks goes to Gyarados, Rotom-H.
Rotom-H @ Leftovers
Bold Nature
EVs: 252 HP / 152 Def / 100 SDef / 4 Spe
- Shadow Ball
- Thunderbolt
- Substitute
- Will-O-Wisp
Ghost Attacks goes to Blissey, Gyarados
Dark Attacks goes to Blissey (special), Gyarados, Swampert (physical)
Rotom-H... probably the best ghost type in OU tier and for a good reason - solid speed, good defences (and great resistances to back them up) and solid attacking power makes it dangerous opponent for any type of team. I tested in this spot SubCharge Rotom (which for me didn't work here), defensive one (worked fine, however I felt that something else to cripple stat-upper like Suicune would be nice to have) so I'm testing right now another Choice Scarfer with Trick. And it works, but I'm ready to get back defensive version, if you think it's better idea. Pretty simple set - it checks few dangerous metagame opponents like SDLuke, Heracross and DDGyarados, which he hits for super-effective damage. It may be pursuit bait, however I love to use double switches, which helps me to avoid any puirsuit users like Tyranitar, so it's not that troublesome. Also having another Trick user is pretty good bonus, which makes teams based on setting-up statistics surpisingly easy to deal with. Also Hyper Offense teams has troubles to go through Jirachi and Rotom-H combo. It also stops Taunt Skarmory cold, against which stallish like team seriously struggles. If the uses Taunt, I just switch out to Swampert, as most TauntMory users pairs it with Scarf/Band TTar, which to be honest is quite predictible. Also I needed spin blocker and Rotom-H helps here alot. But I'm ready to replace or change set if you think there's a better choice here.
I came back to defensive set, just to see how things works, but it doesn't make big differences in my winning or loosing streak. However with defensive version I feel a bit safer in keeping some threats in check.
Anyway, here is it - team with mix of heavy and semi-stall, which I really enjoy to play. Anyway dealing with two Roar and Trick users is annoying and that combination helps me to deal with any kind of team. Thanks alot for any rates and help, I appreciate it ;). Cheers.