As I explained Eeveeium Z is banned and Catastropika is also triggered by Wild Charge in this meta.
While Eevium Z being banned is probably a good idea, changing Catastropika to work with Wild Charge moves this sorta into Pet Mod territory; it's not a change that's inherent in the basic idea of the meta, so if you want this meta to be able to be OMOTM you should probably change that. A similar thing goes for memories. Mechanically they change Silvally's forme, not its type, and unless you want to make any mon that holds a memory turn into that Silvally forme it makes the most sense to have the memories do nothing for any mon but Silvally imo.As I explained Eeveeium Z is banned and Catastropika is also triggered by Wild Charge in this meta.
First off, this sounds really fun! On the subject of Regenerator, I would say that its definitely worth considering a ban, as defensive cores that cover each other's weaknesses already sound like enough of a pain here. The thing that would balance out stall in this meta is definitely having a Poison type, as both Leech Seed and Toxic Spikes will fail versus them. On that note, I'm going to list a few possible fun mons:Double or Nothing
Metagame premise. as the metagame suggests, this works as follows- every move, regardless of whether it targets the enemy or not, will be affected by double or nothing. If the move is of a super effective type vs the target, it'll be used twice (instead of dealing double damage). If the move is of a not very effective type (or against immunity), the move will fail. If the move is 4x super effective, it'll be used 4 times.
The interesting addition about this meta is that moves will be blocked that did not target the opponent- for instance, want to stop skarmory healing? switch in your electric type, which resists flying. When the opponent clicks roost, the electric typing will block it! also, clicking zap cannon against that skarmory will try and use zap cannon twice against it, which has the potential to offset bad accuracy thanks to super effectiveness, improving the move heavily. but be careful, if the skarmory predicts the electric switch and clicks spikes, it'll use spikes twice and put down 2 layers against you.
Ability based immunity + item-based neutrality (berries such as chople, occa etc.) doesnt affect double or nothing, only typing- so while heatran is "immune" to flamethrower, only its typing is taken into consideration when the move is used, so flamethrower will be used against it. it will still take no damage from the flamethrower thanks to its ability, as well as activate the flash fire boost. for a mon like bronzong for instance, even though its typing might be considered to grant an immunity against ground, using spikes against it will count as a super effective typing and result in 2 layers. A move like Freeze-Dry works as follows- against a pure water type, the ice type move will be blocked and rendered useless. Against a water/ground type, it will hit due to "neutral" typing, resulting in a 4x super effective hit (hitting 4 times).
Threats and Potential Bans
These things are improved in the meta
Secondary Effects: Since super effective attacks hit twice, they'll also grant two times at landing a secondary effect. So scald has 2 30% chances. Also guaranteed secondary effects are strong, with Acid Spray hitting twice and lowering special defense by 2 with each hit. Flame charge would be able to up speed by 2x.
Hazard Control: Both spinblocking and hazard prevention are very easy in this mode. This will create an interesting choice as to whether teams choose to include hazards or not, as any steel type is capable of blocking spin, defog, rocks and tspikes at the same time.
Boosting: Mons can get a huge chance to set up in one turn and sweep in this meta. For instance a thundurus might lure in a Tyranitar only to reveal bulk up, instantly boosting to +4/+4 and sweeping. However, no longer can mons blast their way through resists with boosted z-moves anymore. Strong coverage is a must.
Obscure Coverage: Many bad moves can find some new usage here- for instance the previously mentioned Zap Cannon is an option because when super-effective will have two attempts to hit. Other moves that might be usable would be hypnosis, ice ball/rollout/fury cutter, power-up punch, sky drop, dragon tail, charm, and a bunch more.
Defensive options are really interesting because hazards and statuses like poison are much more easily blocked and there is a wide range of switchins to common mons now-but also recovery can be easily prevented. offensively you can search for a double boost in order to quickly put yourself in a winning position- but you wont be able to blast your way through resists with z-moves any more, for instance. mons with excellent STAB coverage will go far in this meta for sure, and every team is likely gunna have to rely on a heavy mixture of defence and offence to succeed, with both offensive and defensive playstyles receiving potential big buffs and nerfs. Regenerator mons are gunna be a big hit thanks to having guaranteed healing, unlike anything else- and Regenerator might get a quickban for this reason.
Additional info
moves will be repeated twice in a row if the user is capable of doing so- for instance u-turn wont be able to be repeated thanks to the user switching out after the first turn. rest wont be able to be used twice because the user becomes incapacitated by sleep after the first turn. each repetition has its own attack rolls for things like accuracy, confusion hitting, paralysis, and secondary effects. if you have a life orb, it'll amplify each hit and also cost 10% each time.
for moves like solarbeam and sky drop, the second repetition of the attack will start as soon as the first attack hits/misses/finishes. so for sky drop, you might be able to pick up an opponent over the length of 8 turns. for solarbeam, you might accidentally lock yourself into an 8-turn long string of charge moves. unless the move is a multi-turn move, all the attacks happen during the same turn- that means if the attack gets a KO, the remaining attacks will miss. this is worth considering when it comes to things like high jump kick.
Questions for the community:
Is Regenerator broken? Its the only way to guarantee healing, every single other mon can be forcefullly whittled down defensively by blocking their roosts/slack offs etc. Even poison heal gliscor can be stopped from pressing protect against many types. Things like Slowbro, Tornadus and Tangrowth may cause enormous problems with their good coverage, bulk, and guaranteed heal, plus switching and hazard control is incredibly simple in this metagame.
Any good threats or moves that come to mind? I think thisll be a fun meta for the way it develops rather than due to creating crazy sets or stats. Its gunna be very reactionary and flexible and might be a lot of fun because of that. Seeing the relationship between stall and offence teams is gunna be super interesting for sure.
Nihilego is neutral for Grass and Ground, so it does not block seed or spikes. In the same vein, Steelix doesn't block Spikes at all. In fact, opponents get 2 layers of spikes vs Steelix.First off, this sounds really fun! On the subject of Regenerator, I would say that its definitely worth considering a ban, as defensive cores that cover each other's weaknesses already sound like enough of a pain here. The thing that would balance out stall in this meta is definitely having a Poison type, as both Leech Seed and Toxic Spikes will fail versus them. On that note, I'm going to list a few possible fun mons:
Nihlego: It blocks most forms of recovery, as well as Leech Seed, Toxic Spikes and Spikes, while also being able to deal big damage to opponents. Could run Grass Knot or Hidden Power for Ground types.
Togedemaru: Weak to 3 types, Resistant and Immune to 12, has Wish, Spiky Shield and two momentum options. Struggles heavily with doing anything to Ground types, as always.
Steelix: Sets hazards while also blocking all possible hazards by the opponent, as well as their recovery. 10 types failing versus it with that bulk is amazing.
Maybe I'll think of more at some other point
Last time I checked Steelix and Nihilego are both weak to ground so they don't block spikes at all, they in fact let the opponent set up 2 and 3 layers respectively.First off, this sounds really fun! On the subject of Regenerator, I would say that its definitely worth considering a ban, as defensive cores that cover each other's weaknesses already sound like enough of a pain here. The thing that would balance out stall in this meta is definitely having a Poison type, as both Leech Seed and Toxic Spikes will fail versus them. On that note, I'm going to list a few possible fun mons:
Nihlego: It blocks most forms of recovery, as well as Leech Seed, Toxic Spikes and Spikes, while also being able to deal big damage to opponents. Could run Grass Knot or Hidden Power for Ground types.
Togedemaru: Weak to 3 types, Resistant and Immune to 12, has Wish, Spiky Shield and two momentum options. Struggles heavily with doing anything to Ground types, as always.
Steelix: Sets hazards while also blocking all possible hazards by the opponent, as well as their recovery. 10 types failing versus it with that bulk is amazing.
Maybe I'll think of more at some other point
Imo I think you should allow trick room to be used, but instead it's effect returns the field to normal for 5 turns then it goes back to reverse after the turns are up. This way it doesn't remove a strategy for what I see as no particular reason.Trickster Tower
Premise: Trick Room is permanently on the field during battle. Trick Room fails in battle.
Potential Bans and Threats:
Mega Mawile should at least be suspected, as it has a lot of power and is only held back by speed, which is no longer an issue. Magearna is amazing in this metagame, as it can run OTR without Trick Room, letting it cause even more havoc. Bulkier Pokémon are a lot better in this metagame, such as Ferrothorn. They now have potential to run more offensively inclined sets if they wanted to, as they will be treated as extremely fast Pokémon in this metagame. Likewise, fast attackers like Mega Medicham, Greninja, and Shift Gearna are not as good as before, as they are now slow and do not have the bulk to sustain hits.
Unbans: Pheromosa, Landorus, Darkrai (All of these are usually speedy Pokémon who despise Trick Room. Another thing is that none of these things are anywhere near bulky, leaving them open to be knocked out before being able to attack.)
Please give thoughts!
whoops, I had it in my head that Spikes was Normal type. Now I feel like a bit of an idiot. Also, yeah, forgot about the Rock type making Grass neutral. Was just looking for an offensive poison type tbh.Nihilego is neutral for Grass and Ground, so it does not block seed or spikes. In the same vein, Steelix doesn't block Spikes at all. In fact, opponents get 2 layers of spikes vs Steelix.
To be fair, Spike Cannon is normal.whoops, I had it in my head that Spikes was Normal type. Now I feel like a bit of an idiot. Also, yeah, forgot about the Rock type making Grass neutral. Was just looking for an offensive poison type tbh.
I have a few issues with this.Trickster Tower
Premise: Trick Room is permanently on the field during battle. Trick Room fails in battle.
Potential Bans and Threats:
Mega Mawile should at least be suspected, as it has a lot of power and is only held back by speed, which is no longer an issue. Magearna is amazing in this metagame, as it can run OTR without Trick Room, letting it cause even more havoc. Bulkier Pokémon are a lot better in this metagame, such as Ferrothorn. They now have potential to run more offensively inclined sets if they wanted to, as they will be treated as extremely fast Pokémon in this metagame. Likewise, fast attackers like Mega Medicham, Greninja, and Shift Gearna are not as good as before, as they are now slow and do not have the bulk to sustain hits.
Unbans: Pheromosa, Landorus, Darkrai (All of these are usually speedy Pokémon who despise Trick Room. Another thing is that none of these things are anywhere near bulky, leaving them open to be knocked out before being able to attack.)
Please give thoughts!
I think I would go with the second option, but still ban M-maw and Magearna. However, this does raise the question about what to do with Phero, Lando, and Darkai. Should I ban them? Also, the Terrain Extender thing is going. My idea is that it is permanently in Trick Room unless the move is used. If it is used, things go back to normal. If used again, permanent Trick room once more.I have a few issues with this.
First off, this would ruin some Mons, and buff others too much. Things like mega-camerupt and shiinotic become viable, which is interesting. But on the other hand, you have mons like mage and m-maw and the likes becoming too much. What would be a unique idea to shut these down instead of out right banning them is to have TR work like an on/off switch. you could either...
1. every 5 trns, it switches from TR to non TR
or
2. its on by default, but it works as an on/off switch, where every mon has access to TR and using the move either switches it on or off. building on that idea, terrain extender would also extend any trick rooms set up by that user.
Would you get the moves associated with forme changes such as relic song or the rotom moves? Additionally, mew does not have access to aurora veil so would you have access to that forme's movesetas well?Hello, its me again. im back but this time with a new unique metagame idea!I think
Forme change is an OU based metagame where a pokes stats and typings change based off the forme change its named after (that includes in battle form changes such as rotom/meloetta/minior and therian forme changes) or based off the megastone its holdingForme changeMetagame premise:
Examples:
Exeggutor-alola (Mantine)
85/50/70/80/140/60
+10 Atk | -10 speed | +typing
So mantine gains dragon typing while getting access to the abilities frisk and harvest, and gets some stat changes. Has an interesting defensive typing
Ninetails-alola (Mew)
100/100/91/100/100/109
-9 Def | +9 Spe | +typing
Mew similarly gets snow warning so it can utilize aurora veil, gains ice typing, gains speed and loses defence. Becomes a very versatile veil setter
Meloetta-pirouette (Tapu Bulu)
70/185/148/30/40/108
+55 Atk | +33 Def | -55 Spa | -55 Spa | +33 Spe | +typing
Tapu bulu becomes broken with all these stat changes, gets 185 atk with stab super power. Also gets serene grace now instead of grassy terrain
Dugtrio-alola:
Abilities: Sand Veil/Tangling Hair/Sand Force
Stat changes: +10 Def | -10 Spe | +typing
Exeggutor-alola:
Abilities: Frisk/Harvest
Stat changes: +10 Atk | - 10 Spe | +typing
Golem-alola:
Abilities: Magnet Pull/Sturdy/Galvanize
Stat changes: +typing
Marowak-alola:
Abilities: Cursed body/Lightning Rod/Rock Head
Stat changes: +typing
Muk-alola:
Abilities: Poison Touch/Gluttony/Power of Alchemy
Stat Changes: +typing
Ninetails-alola:
Abilities: Snow Cloak/Snow Warning
Stat changes: -9 Def | +9 Spe | +typing
Persian-alola:
Abilities: Fur Coat/Technician/Rattled
Stat Changes: -10 Atk | +10 Spa | +as primary typing
Raichu-alola:
Abilities: Surge Surfer
Stat changes: -5 Atk | -5 Def | +5 Spa | +5 Spd | +typing
Raticate-alola:
Abilities: Gluttony/Hustle/Thick Fat
Stat changes: +20 HP | -10 Atk | +10 Def | -10 Spa | + Spd | -20 Spe | +as primary typing
Sandslash-alola:
Abilities: Snow Cloak/Slush Rush
Stat Changes: +10 Def | -20 Spa | +10 Spd | +typing
All Rotom stat changes: +10 Atk | +30 Def | +10 Spa | +30 Spd | -5 Spe | + Levitate
Rotom-Fan: +typing
Rotom-Frost: +typing
Rotom-Heat: +typing
Rotom-Mow: +typing
Rotom-Wash: +typing
Landorus-Therian:
Ability: Intimidate
Stat changes: +20 Atk | -10 Spa | -10 Spe
Thundurus-Therian:
Ability: Volt Absorb
Stat changes: -10 Atk | + 20 Spa | -10 Spe
Tornadus-Therian
Ability: Regenerator
Stat changes: -10 Atk | -10 Spa | +10 Spd | + 10 Spe
Meloetta-Pirouette:
Ability: Serene Grace
Stat changes: +55 Atk | +33 Def | -55 Spa | -55 Spa | +33 Spe | +typing
Minior-Meteor:
Ability: Shields Down
Stat changes: -40 Atk | +40 Def | -40 Spa | +40 Spd | -60 Spe
Darmanitan-Zen:
Ability: Zen Mode
Stat changes: -110 Atk | +50 Def | +110 Spa | +50 Spa | -40 Spe | +typing
Hoopa-Unbound:
Ability: Magician
Stat changes: +50 Atk | +20 Spa | +10 Spe | +typing
Oricoro-Pa'u: + Dancer | +as primary typing
Oricoro-Pom-Pom: + Dancer | +as primary typing
Oricoro-Sensu: + Dancer | +as primary typing
The million gourgeist formes, which i dont really care about
not to be lazy but, you can all check the mix and mega available stones to see whats available
Potential bans and threats:
Banlist:
- One form change clause, no full regenerator tornadus-therian for you
- Only one mega per team if i havent pointed it out, no this isnt mix and mega
- OU clauses + kartana, kyurem(for now).
- Uber stones and a select few are banned
Meloetta-pirouette (Kartana)
Gets 59/231/164/4/0/142 offenses plus stab sacred sword, yea no thanks
Golem-Alola (Kyurem-Black)
Gets dragon electric typing plus galvanize/magnet pull, uh no
- Mawilite
- Beedrilite
- Medichamite
- All uber mega stones
Darmanitan-zen and meloetta-pirouette forme are potential quickbans for giving too much overwhelming offenses
Questions for the community:Thanks for reading, and let me know your opinions on it!
- Should form changes from ubers be allowed? (Aegislash-blade/Shaymin-sky/Giratina-Origin)
- Should i even allow mega stones on non-native users?
- Did i miss any forme changes?
- What are some potential bans/unbans u think there is?
- Does this metagame sound fun? Does it look balanced?
Nope, this is similar to mix and mega in the sense you get access to the mega's new type and stat changes, but dont get access to their movesWould you get the moves associated with forme changes such as relic song or the rotom moves?
Mew actually does learn aurora veil naturally, so it could use snow warning + aurora veil without needing access to ninetails-alola's movesetAdditionally, mew does not have access to aurora veil so would you have access to that forme's movesetas well?
- Should form changes from ubers be allowed? (Aegislash-blade/Shaymin-sky/Giratina-Origin)
- Should i even allow mega stones on non-native users?
- Did i miss any forme changes?
- What are some potential bans/unbans u think there is?
- Does this metagame sound fun? Does it look balanced?
Forme change
Removed most of post because it lags my computer. So many GIFs, man.
For the questions:Hello, its me again. im back but this time with a new unique metagame idea!I think
Forme change is an OU based metagame where a pokes stats and typings change based off the forme change its named after (that includes in battle form changes such as rotom/meloetta/minior and therian forme changes) or based off the megastone its holdingForme changeMetagame premise:
Examples:
Exeggutor-alola (Mantine)
85/50/70/80/140/60
+10 Atk | -10 speed | +typing
So mantine gains dragon typing while getting access to the abilities frisk and harvest, and gets some stat changes. Has an interesting defensive typing
Ninetails-alola (Mew)
100/100/91/100/100/109
-9 Def | +9 Spe | +typing
Mew similarly gets snow warning so it can utilize aurora veil, gains ice typing, gains speed and loses defence. Becomes a very versatile veil setter
Meloetta-pirouette (Tapu Bulu)
70/185/148/30/40/108
+55 Atk | +33 Def | -55 Spa | -55 Spa | +33 Spe | +typing
Tapu bulu becomes broken with all these stat changes, gets 185 atk with stab super power. Also gets serene grace now instead of grassy terrain
Dugtrio-alola:
Abilities: Sand Veil/Tangling Hair/Sand Force
Stat changes: +10 Def | -10 Spe | +typing
Exeggutor-alola:
Abilities: Frisk/Harvest
Stat changes: +10 Atk | - 10 Spe | +typing
Golem-alola:
Abilities: Magnet Pull/Sturdy/Galvanize
Stat changes: +typing
Marowak-alola:
Abilities: Cursed body/Lightning Rod/Rock Head
Stat changes: +typing
Muk-alola:
Abilities: Poison Touch/Gluttony/Power of Alchemy
Stat Changes: +typing
Ninetails-alola:
Abilities: Snow Cloak/Snow Warning
Stat changes: -9 Def | +9 Spe | +typing
Persian-alola:
Abilities: Fur Coat/Technician/Rattled
Stat Changes: -10 Atk | +10 Spa | +as primary typing
Raichu-alola:
Abilities: Surge Surfer
Stat changes: -5 Atk | -5 Def | +5 Spa | +5 Spd | +typing
Raticate-alola:
Abilities: Gluttony/Hustle/Thick Fat
Stat changes: +20 HP | -10 Atk | +10 Def | -10 Spa | + Spd | -20 Spe | +as primary typing
Sandslash-alola:
Abilities: Snow Cloak/Slush Rush
Stat Changes: +10 Def | -20 Spa | +10 Spd | +typing
All Rotom stat changes: +10 Atk | +30 Def | +10 Spa | +30 Spd | -5 Spe | + Levitate
Rotom-Fan: +typing
Rotom-Frost: +typing
Rotom-Heat: +typing
Rotom-Mow: +typing
Rotom-Wash: +typing
Landorus-Therian:
Ability: Intimidate
Stat changes: +20 Atk | -10 Spa | -10 Spe
Thundurus-Therian:
Ability: Volt Absorb
Stat changes: -10 Atk | + 20 Spa | -10 Spe
Tornadus-Therian
Ability: Regenerator
Stat changes: -10 Atk | -10 Spa | +10 Spd | + 10 Spe
Meloetta-Pirouette:
Ability: Serene Grace
Stat changes: +55 Atk | +33 Def | -55 Spa | -55 Spa | +33 Spe | +typing
Minior-Meteor:
Ability: Shields Down
Stat changes: -40 Atk | +40 Def | -40 Spa | +40 Spd | -60 Spe
Darmanitan-Zen:
Ability: Zen Mode
Stat changes: -110 Atk | +50 Def | +110 Spa | +50 Spa | -40 Spe | +typing
Hoopa-Unbound:
Ability: Magician
Stat changes: +50 Atk | +20 Spa | +10 Spe | +typing
Oricoro-Pa'u: + Dancer | +as primary typing
Oricoro-Pom-Pom: + Dancer | +as primary typing
Oricoro-Sensu: + Dancer | +as primary typing
The million gourgeist formes, which i dont really care about
not to be lazy but, you can all check the mix and mega available stones to see whats available
Potential bans and threats:
Banlist:
- One form change clause, no full regenerator tornadus-therian for you
- Only one mega per team if i havent pointed it out, no this isnt mix and mega
- OU clauses + kartana, kyurem(for now).
- Uber stones and a select few are banned
Meloetta-pirouette (Kartana)
Gets 59/231/164/4/0/142 offenses plus stab sacred sword, yea no thanks
Golem-Alola (Kyurem-Black)
Gets dragon electric typing plus galvanize/magnet pull, uh no
- Mawilite
- Beedrilite
- Medichamite
- All uber mega stones
Darmanitan-zen and meloetta-pirouette forme are potential quickbans for giving too much overwhelming offenses
Questions for the community:Thanks for reading, and let me know your opinions on it!
- Should form changes from ubers be allowed? (Aegislash-blade/Shaymin-sky/Giratina-Origin)
- Should i even allow mega stones on non-native users?
- Did i miss any forme changes?
- What are some potential bans/unbans u think there is?
- Does this metagame sound fun? Does it look balanced?
Honestly im not sure how to handle this, what would other oms do in a situation like this?For the questions:
Other things:
- Some stat drops might lead to mons having stats at 0 or less. I reckon solutions could be either to set that stat to 1 (I don't like this idea) or to simply disallow any form change that gives a mon a stat of 0 or less (I think this would be a better and more balanced solution).
Pokemon that can change or have already changed form are not allowed to change formes again. So hoopa-unbound cannot change into a damanitan-zen for example, same thing goes for going mega, a muk-alola (mawile) cannot mega evolve into mega mawile
- What happens if a mon that changes form has the nickname? Say Greninja comes in with some kind of Nickname stat change (aka Hoopa-Unbound) and transforms into Ash Greninja. Does it still gain the stat boosts, or are they reset? I assume they would continue.
Yea i decided to put them both on the banlist alongside deoxys defense for giving too much overwhelming statsAegislash Blade and Zygarde-C seem to be broken offensively and defensively respectively...
You cant give landorus-therian a forme change as they are already in another forme, and kyurem is banned, like your ideas thoughChansey looks scary with some forme changes:
Deoxys-Speed: 250/1/45/1/145/85
Rotom-Heat: 250/15/35/45/135/45
Darmanitan-Zen: 250/1/55/145/155/10
Minior-Meteor: 250/1/45/1/145/1
(note: these are all with eviolite too)
Some other ideas:
Hoopa-Unbound(Ninjask): 61/140/45/70/50/170, Bug/Dark, Magician
Meloetta-Pirouette(Staraptor): 85/175/103/1/5/133, Normal/Fighting, Serene Grace
Darmanitan-Zen should probably be banned, anyone with a normally average Special Attack and a Psychic-type special attack dominates in Trick Room.
Darmanitan-Zen(Landorus-Therian): 89/35/140/215/130/51, Ground/Psychic, Zen Mode
Darmanitan-Zen(Kyurem-Black):125/60/150/230/140/55, Dragon/Psychic, Zen Mode
Darmanitan-Zen(Metagross): 80/25/180/205/140/30, Steel/Psychic, Zen Mode
Rotom-Heat(Skarmory): 65/90/170/50/100/65, Steel/Fire, Levitate
Rotom-Wash(Zapdos): 90/100/115/135/120/95, Electric/Water, Levitate
Thundurus-Therian(Celesteela): 97/91/103/127/101/51, Steel/Flying, Volt Absorb
Tornadus-Therian(Magearna: 80/85/115/120/125/75, Steel/Fairy, Regenerator
Oh yeah and here are the Gourgeist forms
Gourgeist-Small: -10 HP/ -5 Atk / +15 Speed
Gourgiest-Large: +10 HP/ +5 Atk/ -15 Speed
Gourgeist-Super: +20 HP/ +10 Atk/ -30 Speed
I don't see a use for these; Meloetta-P sounds much better, but this could work as a bulky physical attacker? idk