New OU Platinum Team, needs your help to refine

[XtrEEmMaShEEn3k2]

Team at a glance:

Jirachi @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Serene Grace
EVs: 80 HP/252 Atk/176 Spd
Adamant nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
- Trick
- Iron Head
- Stealth Rock
- Zen Headbutt
---
Excellent Trick lead. Uses Flinch h4x to great effect. IS NOT a "Suicide" lead, and is meant to switch in multiple times. Zen Headbutt helps against Infernape and other fighters, since I don't really have a Flying attack to take care of fighters such as Machamp. Put in enough speed to outspeed Adamant Lucario after Tricking the Scarf away to another Pokemon.

Machamp (F) @ Leftovers
Ability: No Guard
EVs: 252 HP/252 Atk/4 Spd
Adamant nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
- Rest
- Sleep Talk
- Dynamicpunch
- Payback
---
Tyranitar counter. Not to mention so many other people fail to carry a Machamp counter on their teams. Might be willing to trade of Payback for Ice Punch or STone Edge, but Payback helps take down Cresselia more easily without having to worry about her Paralyzing Rotom.

Mamoswine (F) @ Life Orb
Ability: Snow Cloak
EVs: 78 HP/252 Atk/180 Spd
Adamant nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
- Ice Shard
- Earthquake
- Stone Edge
- Superpower
---
Keeps Salamence and Flygon in check, and helps finish off weakened Zapdos. Stone Edge for potential Gyarados switch ins, Superpower to do something against Bronzong. There normally isn't anything slower than Mamoswine that I have to carry Ice Fang or Avalanche over besides maybe Breloom, so I just carry Ice Shard. Electric immunity.

Vaporeon (F) @ Leftovers
Ability: Water Absorb
EVs: 188 HP/252 Def/68 SAtk
Bold nature (+Def, -Atk)
- Hidden Power [Electric]
- Surf
- Wish
- Protect
---
Infernape, Heatran, and Gyarados counter and Wish passer. Helps absorb Surfs aimed at Heatran and Mamoswine. Water Immunity.

Heatran (F) @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Flash Fire
EVs: 4 Atk/252 Spd/252 SAtk
Naive nature (+Spd, -SDef)
- Fire Blast
- Earth Power
- Dragon Pulse
- Explosion
---
Standard Scarfran, carry Dragon Pulse to deal with Kingdra, and Salamence is taken down with the help of Stealth Rock anyway. Fire Absorber.

Rotom-h @ Leftovers
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 70 HP/188 Spd/252 SAtk
Timid nature (+Spd, -Atk)
- Overheat
- Discharge
- Will-o-wisp (formerly Hidden Power [Ground])
- Shadow Ball
---
The set could use a bit of work. Discharge does help spread Status around, HP Ground hits Heatran, Overheat hits Scizor and Adamant Lucario, Shadow Ball for secondary STAB and to do something against Cresselia. Fighting/Normal/Ground immunity, spin blocker. Also hi2u non-Trick Metagross.

This team has a resist for every element in the game, and with a total of 7 immunities, my Pokemon usually have no trouble switching in. However, it needs a lot of fine-tuning. For one thing, this team has trouble dealing with offensive Starmie if Machamp is weakened. Also, this team has trouble against Stall teams, especially since half of my team is walled by Blissey, and my opponent can simply switch to their appropriate physical wall against Jirachi, Machamp, and Mamoswine. Also, I lack a Grass attack, so Rest/Sleep Talk Swampert could give me trouble as well. Please help, I really feel like I'm on to something here. Thank you all for you assistance.

I think the main problem my team has is that although it can DEAL with most of the threats in the game with its resistances, it has trouble gaining momentum, as most of my Pokemon don't have the attack and/or the speed to really sweep teams effectively. If you can figure out a way to change my team around so that it works better, please contribute.

 

[wildfire393]

If you've got trouble with Blissey, swtich Rotom to this set:

Rotom-Whatever @ Scarf
24 HP/ 232 SpA / 252 Speed
Tbolt/Discharge
Forme Move
Shadow Ball or Hidden Power of Choice
Trick

I really favor Discharge/Overheat/HP Ice/Trick, as it allows him to act as a counter to DDMence, DDGyara, SDLucario, and SDScizor all at once. The ability to counter the four biggest physical threats in the metagame is fearsome indeed. And Trick is fantastic at screwing up stall teams and crippling walls, particularly Blissey.

 

[XtrEEmMaShEEn3k2]

^I dislike the idea of half my team carrying Choice Scarves though. Jirachi would probably need to undergo a replacement or modification then. Two Trickers on the same team is also not a very good idea because Tricking the first Choice Scarf allows your opponent to have a counter for your second Trick.

 

[Matthew]

Most teams don't usually carry two trickers. With Shoddy's implications on Trick even IF they send in a scarf against your trick you're still allowed to pick a move at little or no cost to you (besides revealing you have two trickers

 

[wildfire393]

If you don't want to run a second Trick Scarfer, you could try a Sub-Punching Gengar in place of your Rotom. Sub/Focus Punch/Shadow Ball/Hypnosis. Hypnosis + Shadow ball will take out a lot of physical walls, and Focus Punch will ream Bliss.

 

[RaikouLover]

Scrap Focus Punch Gengar. Just slap a Life Orb and Explosion on it and your Blissey Problems are over. You could try Bai-Tran if you'd like:

Heatran @ Life Orb
Hasty Nature
56 Atk / 200 SpA / 252 Spe
*Flamethrower
*Earth Power
*Stealth Rock
*Explosion

Drop rocks to conceal orb damage and Blow up. Works pretty much all the time. You can then switch Jirachi to a full blown Scarfer with Iron Head / Fire Punch / Ice Punch / Trick.

 

[Darkmalice]

I agree with RaikouLover's Heatran set. It fits better with this team and can take out Blissey to mess over stall teams.

Change Jirachi's movepool to Iron Head, Ice Punch, Thunder Punch and Trick, and change the nature to Jolly. This makes a good Salamance switch-in. Then you can replace Mamoswine for a CB Scizor. He has a strong priotity move, can revenge kill offensive Starmie and U-turn gives your team momentum. It would be preferably for him to have 248 Hlth, 4 Spd and 4 SDef, so it can take a Surf better. (252 Hlth means SR does an extra point of damage, and 4 Spd is to outrun opposing Vaporeon).

Replace Rotom with Timid Zapdos with Thunderbolt, Heat Wave, HP Grass and Roost. It solves your Swampert weakness, and it still deals with Scizor and Lucario. Plus there is little need for a spin-blocker when you are only setting up SR, as few teams these days have Rapid Spin. Leftovers is the preferred item on this Zapdos, as it will be used to deal with physical threats.

 

[XtrEEmMaShEEn3k2]

Most teams don't usually carry two trickers. With Shoddy's implications on Trick even IF they send in a scarf against your trick you're still allowed to pick a move at little or no cost to you (besides revealing you have two trickers

I don't know about you, but I dislike having anything relying on an illegal maneuver on my team. Plus that's 2 moveslots out of 24 that become rather worthless after 1 use.

I agree with RaikouLover's Heatran set. It fits better with this team and can take out Blissey to mess over stall teams.

Change Jirachi's movepool to Iron Head, Ice Punch, Thunder Punch and Trick, and change the nature to Jolly. This makes a good Salamance switch-in. Then you can replace Mamoswine for a CB Scizor. He has a strong priotity move, can revenge kill offensive Starmie and U-turn gives your team momentum. It would be preferably for him to have 248 Hlth, 4 Spd and 4 SDef, so it can take a Surf better. (252 Hlth means SR does an extra point of damage, and 4 Spd is to outrun opposing Vaporeon).

Replace Rotom with Timid Zapdos with Thunderbolt, Heat Wave, HP Grass and Roost. It solves your Swampert weakness, and it still deals with Scizor and Lucario. Plus there is little need for a spin-blocker when you are only setting up SR, as few teams these days have Rapid Spin. Leftovers is the preferred item on this Zapdos, as it will be used to deal with physical threats.

In my experience, Zapdos has a lot of trouble with Stealth Rock, though I've never tried to run a Timid Zapdos, usually Bold. Though even Bold Zapdos (252 HP 220 Def) takes 40.36% - 47.40% from an SD Life Orb Quick Attack and 47.66% - 56.25% from an SD Life Orb Extremespeed. And that's Bold. What Timid EV Spread would you recommend?

Also, if I change Heatran to Baitran, I lose the only fast Sweeper on my team that can take down more than 1 pokemon. The team becomes a bit too defensive if I do that. Though I see the merit in yours and Raikoulover's positions, I think I need a bit more convincing whether it's worth losing my only fast Sweeper. I'll be sure to test it though.

This problem becomes especially apparent if I were to switch out Mamoswine for Scizor like you suggested, as then I would lose my electric immunity and my team would have huge Zapdos problems (nothing would be able to hit it hard or fast enough before it Roosts).

Oh yeah, forgot that this team is also swept by Infinity's Calm Mind/Surf/Rest/Roar Suicune (Stealth Rock damage will accumulate and I can't get the Pokemon I want in to take a Wish because of Roar). In order to beat it, I'll need to Explode with Heatran and EQ with Mamoswine.

 

[Darkmalice]

Zapdos EVs should be 4 Hlth, 252 SAtt, 252 Speed, Timid. It'll always outrun Lucario, and it'll at least tie with Salamance, Jirachi, other Zapdos etc if they don't have a boost to their speed.

If you want speed, you can make Zapdos Scarfed. Just replace Roost with U-turn. However, this hinders Zapdos' ability to constantly wall Lucario. Jirachi is already faster than Scarf Heatran and has plenty of speed, especially if Jolly, which is recommended with my moveset so it can swap in on a Salamance as it DDs. Iron Head is pretty powerful with a 60% chance of flinch, dealing over 50% to Azelf and many other pokemon, and dealing with Blissey without the need to Trick (barring Thunderwave, which is generally absent for Toxic) he has bolt-beam coverage with my set (as well as Jolly, you may also want to put those Hlth EVs to Speed to guarantee that it at least ties with +1 positive speed natured 100 base pokemon.)

True, Mamoswine is electric immune, though Machamp won't suffer much from paralysis thanks to bad speed, and he can heal it off with Rest. You could also change his nature to Guts and replace Dynamic Punch with Close Combat, so he'll enjoy the paralysis, as well as burn, sleep (by rest or by your opponent) and toxic (Tspikes). Put those 4 Speed EVs into Def; most Machamp have more than 4 Spd EVs, so you'll be slower than most Machamp anyways, but your Machamp wants to wall Tyranitar. Keep Payback; it hits ghosts and Cress. Besides, Jirachi is usually a safe switch-in to Salamance, so Ice Punch and Stone Edge aren't necessary.

And now that I think about it, your team is actually Zapdos weak, especially defensive Zapdos. It can beat Rotom and stall Heatran with Roost, whilst walling Machamp. So I wouldn't swap Mamoswine for Scizor; I would swap it for Blissey. She solves your offensive Starmie weakness far better than Scizor, and screws over many Special sweeprs, whilst you have Jirachi to protect her from Trick. She can either be a Wish Passer with Toxic (to cripple walls and pokemon like Zapdos), enabling you to replace Vaporeon with Suicune should you wish. Or she can be a cleric. You will probably prefer the latter option, as she will cure any paralysis that affects your team and Machamp rest. If you choose this, then keep Machamp with No Guard.

 

[XtrEEmMaShEEn3k2]

Zapdos EVs should be 4 Hlth, 252 SAtt, 252 Speed, Timid. It'll always outrun Lucario, and it'll at least tie with Salamance, Jirachi, other Zapdos etc if they don't have a boost to their speed.

Lucario's SD Life Orb ExtremeSpeed does 79.19% - 92.86% to that Zapdos, an easy OHKO after Stealth Rock (and chances are, Stealth Rock WILL be down). SD Life Orb Quick Attack does 66.77% - 78.57%, a possible OHKO after Stealth Rock, and it's more than easy enough to leave Zapdos with 9% residual damage. So that's a big no-go on that EV Spread.

If you want speed, you can make Zapdos Scarfed. Just replace Roost with U-turn. However, this hinders Zapdos' ability to constantly wall Lucario. Jirachi is already faster than Scarf Heatran and has plenty of speed, especially if Jolly, which is recommended with my moveset so it can swap in on a Salamance as it DDs. Iron Head is pretty powerful with a 60% chance of flinch, dealing over 50% to Azelf and many other pokemon, and dealing with Blissey without the need to Trick (barring Thunderwave, which is generally absent for Toxic) he has bolt-beam coverage with my set (as well as Jolly, you may also want to put those Hlth EVs to Speed to guarantee that it at least ties with +1 positive speed natured 100 base pokemon.)

I already have Iron Head, and the thing is, Jirachi's whole Schtick is Tricking away the Scarf to hopefully cripple a Pokemon.

True, Mamoswine is electric immune, though Machamp won't suffer much from paralysis thanks to bad speed, and he can heal it off with Rest. You could also change his nature to Guts and replace Dynamic Punch with Close Combat, so he'll enjoy the paralysis, as well as burn, sleep (by rest or by your opponent) and toxic (Tspikes). Put those 4 Speed EVs into Def; most Machamp have more than 4 Spd EVs, so you'll be slower than most Machamp anyways, but your Machamp wants to wall Tyranitar. Keep Payback; it hits ghosts and Cress. Besides, Jirachi is usually a safe switch-in to Salamance, so Ice Punch and Stone Edge aren't necessary.

Close Combat is only suitable on Machamp on a Choice set. You kind of don't want a move that lowers your defenses when you're trying to sponge hits. Plus Confusion h4x has helped me way too many times to count. Not to mention 4 def is neglible to outspeeding Machamp that run 0 Speed. Speed IS the only stat that where even 1 point makes a difference, while 4 defense allows me to take maybe 2-3 HP less damage from an attack.

Mamoswine isn't there just to sponge Thunder Waves, it's a general Electric immunity switch in.

And now that I think about it, your team is actually Zapdos weak, especially defensive Zapdos. It can beat Rotom and stall Heatran with Roost, whilst walling Machamp. So I wouldn't swap Mamoswine for Scizor; I would swap it for Blissey. She solves your offensive Starmie weakness far better than Scizor, and screws over many Special sweeprs, whilst you have Jirachi to protect her from Trick. She can either be a Wish Passer with Toxic (to cripple walls and pokemon like Zapdos), enabling you to replace Vaporeon with Suicune should you wish. Or she can be a cleric. You will probably prefer the latter option, as she will cure any paralysis that affects your team and Machamp rest. If you choose this, then keep Machamp with No Guard.

But without Mamoswine, Salamence and Scarf Flygon run wild all over this team. Blissey is more suited to replace Vaporeon for her role on this team, but if I do that, I have a big Gyarados and NP Mixnape weakness if Jirachi's Scarf is gone.

 

[MythTrainerInfinity]

Your main problem is the fact that you lack walls to take any sort of hits that are not water or fire. I would suggest putting a Blissey over Tran or something.

No phazer means things are going to set up right in front of you and you'll be unable to do much about it... I don't get why you want so many 252/252 sets either... Stalk Machamp I think generally works better with Guts as you hit harder.

 

[Darkmalice]

Lucario's SD Life Orb ExtremeSpeed does 79.19% - 92.86% to that Zapdos, an easy OHKO after Stealth Rock (and chances are, Stealth Rock WILL be down). SD Life Orb Quick Attack does 66.77% - 78.57%, a possible OHKO after Stealth Rock, and it's more than easy enough to leave Zapdos with 9% residual damage. So that's a big no-go on that EV Spread.

Ok, scrap the Zapdos idea. To remove your Swampert weakness, replace Rotom-h with Rotom-c. Leaf Storm is better for your team than Overheat. Rotom still deals with Scizor fine. Replace Discharge with Thunderbolt for the extra power. You will need to replace HP Ground with Will o Wisp. Vaporeon deals with Heatran fine. Will o Wisp is needed for Lucario, as Crunch will otherwise hurt. Your Rotom is Timid, so he will outspeed Adamant Lucario, and all the Jolly Lucarios have Ice Punch over Crunch, so Rotom will handle Lucario fine without Overheat.

Oh, and Rotom doesn't need max Speed. 212 EVs is enough to outrun Adamant Lucario. Place the rest in Hlth, to improve its defences.

But without Mamoswine, Salamence and Scarf Flygon run wild all over this team.

That's why I recommended Ice Punch on Jirachi. It keeps them at check well, who is actually able to swap into a Dragon attack, unlike Mamoswine.


If you give Machamp Guts, I would probably either let it have Cross Chop, or remove Rest and Sleep Talk and give it Ice Punch and Thunder Punch with a CB.

 

[XtrEEmMaShEEn3k2]

Your main problem is the fact that you lack walls to take any sort of hits that are not water or fire. I would suggest putting a Blissey over Tran or something.

No phazer means things are going to set up right in front of you and you'll be unable to do much about it... I don't get why you want so many 252/252 sets either... Stalk Machamp I think generally works better with Guts as you hit harder.

Stalk Machamp?

That's why I recommended Ice Punch on Jirachi.


If you give Machamp Guts, I would probably either let it have Cross Chop, or remove Rest and Sleep Talk and give it Ice Punch and Thunder Punch with a CB.

Jirachi still takes a decent amount of damage from DD Outrage even though it resists it, which is why I like Ice Shard so much, it really helps keep the Dragons in check. If Machamp has Guts, though, then Cross Chop will only be 80% accurate while DynamicPunch will only be 50% accurate, not to mention I can't keep switching into things or absorbing Status without Rest/Sleep Talk.

 

[MythTrainerInfinity]

Rest + Sleep Talk = Stalk Machamp.

 

[XtrEEmMaShEEn3k2]

Well, like I said, though, Machamp hits hard enough as it is, and the DynamicPunch's Confusion h4x is extremely good. Not to mention if Guts is used, Close Combat is undesirable on a Stalk set, Cross Chop is only 80% accurate (when there's already only a 33.33% chance that you're going to pick it when using Sleep Talk), Brick Break is 75 Base Power, and Revenge is set-up bait and doesn't hit Switches hard enough. Best choices are probably Cross Chop or possibly even Low Kick. Have no idea why it isn't considered anywhere on the Analysises.

 

[Evisu]

Brick Break isn't that horrible with STAB and Guts boost taken into consideration. I think it's fine the way it is though.

Only thing I'd change is giving Expert Belt to Rotom, can give the illusion of a choice item and provides more power.

 

[XtrEEmMaShEEn3k2]

Brick Break isn't that horrible with STAB and Guts boost taken into consideration. I think it's fine the way it is though.

Only thing I'd change is giving Expert Belt to Rotom.

After a Guts boost, essentially Brick Break's Base Power is 112.5, only 12 higher than than DynamicPunch, and it goes away when you wake up. Not really worth it IMO.

 

[XtrEEmMaShEEn3k2]

Ok, scrap the Zapdos idea. To remove your Swampert weakness, replace Rotom-h with Rotom-c. Leaf Storm is better for your team than Overheat. Rotom still deals with Scizor fine. Replace Discharge with Thunderbolt for the extra power. You will need to replace HP Ground with Will o Wisp. Vaporeon deals with Heatran fine. Will o Wisp is needed for Lucario, as Crunch will otherwise hurt. Your Rotom is Timid, so he will outspeed Adamant Lucario, and all the Jolly Lucarios have Ice Punch over Crunch, so Rotom will handle Lucario fine without Overheat.

Oh, and Rotom doesn't need max Speed. 212 EVs is enough to outrun Adamant Lucario. Place the rest in Hlth, to improve its defences.

That's why I recommended Ice Punch on Jirachi. It keeps them at check well, who is actually able to swap into a Dragon attack, unlike Mamoswine.


If you give Machamp Guts, I would probably either let it have Cross Chop, or remove Rest and Sleep Talk and give it Ice Punch and Thunder Punch with a CB.

Well, I've tested Rotom-C, but I really dislike the fact that Will O Wisp is only 75% accurate, which means I'm going to counter Scizor and Lucario only 75% of the time.

I will use your recommended EV spread though.

 

[Scofield]

I remember playing this team. I noticed that you had a major cursepert weakness, and pert has many chances to set up against this team. Maybe find some room for WoW on rotom? I actually don't think hp ground is needed on it.

 

[XtrEEmMaShEEn3k2]

^Doesn't Cursepert typically carry Rest, though? I dunno, maybe I can try fitting in HP Grass instead of HP Ground? Or maybe use Rotom-C with HP Fire? Probably Rotom-C with HP Fire, since Swampert's 100/90 is a bit more threatening than Scizor's 70/80 and Lucario's 70/70. Though HP Fire might not be enough to Counter Lucario. Then again, Lucario wont be sweeping my team either way since both Jirachi and Heatran outspeed it.

Also, Explosion has made Blissey a much less of a problem. I've come to realize that once Blissey is gone, most teams lack a reliable special wall to wall Vaporeon and Rotom's special assaults.

 

[Scofield]

Not all cursepert's carry rest. The ones that do have rest typically run waterfall/rest/sleep talk/curse in which case vaporeon walls it. If for whatever reason it runs earthquake over waterfall, rotom walls it. The point being that if it runs rest, it only has one move. The one I ran used curse/waterfall/avalanche/earthquake, and that's the set that gave your team major problems. You could use a grass attack on rotom, but WoW might be better since a burnt pert is basically a dead pert. Same goes for ttar, who like to switch in on rotom. Just test it out and see which one you like more. HP grass on heat rotom might be more of a suprise.

Also, if you want to stick with scarftran, you can put stealth rocks on mamo over superpower. The coverage is redundant, superpower is only for bronzong (and it only deals 50%) for whom you have heatran and rotom for. This frees up jirachi, who likes have 3 attacks and trick. Personally I prefer ice punch/fire punch/iron head. Offers a check against lucario, scizor, and salamence. Zen headbutt is really only for ape, and even then you should be switching to vappy. Gengar is hit plenty hard by iron head and it has that nice 60% flinch rate, and gengar can't ohko back.

 

[XtrEEmMaShEEn3k2]

Hmm, I've done some battle calculations. HP Grass from Rotom does 59.41% - 69.80% to the Cursepert listed on the Analysis. The analysis lists Curse, EQ, Avalanche, and Waterfall/Rest. So it really depends on what I'm more concerned over: HP Grass can 2HKO all Swampert, while Will O Wisp can cripple him as well as Tyranitars that decide to switch in. However, I'm walled by Swamperts who carry Rest without Sleep Talk.

So it looks like I'm taking out HP Ground, and now the debate is Will O Wisp vs. HP Grass. If I do use Will O Wisp, I will put Thunderbolt over Discharge since Will O Wisp will be my primary status. If I choose HP Grass, I'll most likely keep Discharge since Status can save you in a tight bind in many situations. Hell, even Discharge might still be favorable since it could cripple CS Heatran that try to switch in on Overheat.

Rotom-H is probably the best on this team since HP Fire isn't going to do much on Lucario, and I'm more concerned about Lucario's speed and Scizor's priority than Cursepert's power.

 

[Corrupted]

CursePerts run curse/waterfall/sleeptalk most of the time with maxhp/maxsdef.

Coulden't you just fit Celebi over rotom? You can run gk/recover/twave/heal bell and you could run a more adventurous water over vappy. LO gyara maybe? stealth rock on celebi is also an option (and you could run fire punch on jirachi for the ohko on scizor/ luke after defence drops.

 

[XtrEEmMaShEEn3k2]

CursePerts run curse/waterfall/sleeptalk most of the time with maxhp/maxsdef.

Coulden't you just fit Celebi over rotom? You can run gk/recover/twave/heal bell and you could run a more adventurous water over vappy. LO gyara maybe? stealth rock on celebi is also an option (and you could run fire punch on jirachi for the ohko on scizor/ luke after defence drops.

Without Vappy, I run into Heatran and Infernape problems. Jirachi also has a problem switching into Lucario's Close Combats or Scizor's X-Scissors, while Rotom has a handy Bug resistance and Fighting Immunity. I dislike having to predict whether Lucario is going to Swords Dance or Close Combat, or whether Scizor is going to Swords Dance, Bullet Punch, U-Turn, or (in the case of risking a switch to Heatran), Superpower.

 

[Puma Italia]

i disagree, i think no guard is better because of d-punch confusion and gives you a chance at generating some free turns. that's just me though, my stalk champ has no guard.