FREE VICTINI
So this post isn't useless don't use 3 attacks Venomoth
So this post isn't useless don't use 3 attacks Venomoth
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np: ORAS UU Stage 4 - Go with the Flow
- Thread starter Sam
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Oh sorry, usually in other tier they are allowing to talk about suspects after tier shifts.
In that case nevermind.
hello, this is a call to the UU tier leaders to do something about Mega Swampert
as all UU players far and wide know, Mega Swampert is incredibly broken. it is impossible to 2hko because it is only weak to grass, and grass SUCKS, and it 2hkos the entire tier because only grass resists its dual stab, and grass SUCKS. even grass types can't even ohko this thing. i think these calcs speak for themselves
252+ SpA Choice Specs Roserade Leaf Storm vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Mega Swampert: 60-72 (16.3 - 19.6%) -- possible 6HKO
0 SpA Mega Venusaur Giga Drain vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Mega Swampert: 264-312 (65.3 - 77.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
36 Atk Ferroseed Bullet Seed (3 hits) vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Mega Swampert: 12-36 (3.5 - 10.5%) -- possibly the worst move ever
and if this wasn't bad enough, look at these offensive calcs:
252+ Atk Mega Swampert Waterfall vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Porygon2: 84-99 (22.4 - 26.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO after it flinches four times in a row
252+ Atk Mega Swampert Waterfall vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Cresselia: 102-121 (22.9 - 27.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO after it flinches four times in a row and Leftovers recovery
the two most behemoth physical walls in the UU tier are OHKO'd by this thing without rain
if nothing is done about this monster, I will be forced to ban Sam and Hikari from smogon.com
thank you for your time
as all UU players far and wide know, Mega Swampert is incredibly broken. it is impossible to 2hko because it is only weak to grass, and grass SUCKS, and it 2hkos the entire tier because only grass resists its dual stab, and grass SUCKS. even grass types can't even ohko this thing. i think these calcs speak for themselves
252+ SpA Choice Specs Roserade Leaf Storm vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Mega Swampert: 60-72 (16.3 - 19.6%) -- possible 6HKO
0 SpA Mega Venusaur Giga Drain vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Mega Swampert: 264-312 (65.3 - 77.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
36 Atk Ferroseed Bullet Seed (3 hits) vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Mega Swampert: 12-36 (3.5 - 10.5%) -- possibly the worst move ever
and if this wasn't bad enough, look at these offensive calcs:
252+ Atk Mega Swampert Waterfall vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Porygon2: 84-99 (22.4 - 26.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO after it flinches four times in a row
252+ Atk Mega Swampert Waterfall vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Cresselia: 102-121 (22.9 - 27.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO after it flinches four times in a row and Leftovers recovery
the two most behemoth physical walls in the UU tier are OHKO'd by this thing without rain
if nothing is done about this monster, I will be forced to ban Sam and Hikari from smogon.com
thank you for your time
Bruh u didn't even bring up the lord Power-Up Punch MegaPert which legitimately beats P2 smh
Something interesting is that Venomoth can take on Blissey if it hasn't put anything else to sleep yet and stealth rocks are up. Say they are facing each other and have both taken SR damage.
Turn 1: Venomoth puts Blissey to sleep, Blissey gains leftover recovery.
Turn 2: Blissey switches to a friend while Venomoth sets up
Turn 3: Venomoth uses sleep powder; friend falls asleep
Turn 4: Venomoth uses sludge bomb; Blissey switches back in and takes SR damage but gets leftover recovery.
+1 232+ SpA Life Orb Venomoth Sludge Bomb vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Blissey: 187-220 (26.1 - 30.8%)
Blissey should now be at around 55-60; suddenly it's being forced to play a lot more defensively than it's used to against special attackers due to the threat of normal poison. If it get's poisoned its health will be at 43-48. Even if it paralyzes Venomoth to stop its sweep, and not all Blisseys run thunder wave, it will be hardpressed to effectively wall it when it is forced to recover off it's damage while Venomoth can set up further. Also of note is that Venomoth can run Giga Drain which at +1 and with black sludge has rolls of 103, 104, 105, 107, 108, 109, 110, 112, 113, 114, 116, 117, 118, 120, 121, 122, meaning seismic toss will take a long time to wear down Venomoth.
Yes, this is situational, but the bigger advantage is that it will have an effect on the player, who will see Blissey actually having a hard time with Venomoth and may start trying to use other pokemon to beat it, which is exactly what Venomoth wants.
You do realize that Scolipede was actually banned on its offensive merits as well right? I am not sure if you were here during its time of release, when it was playing alongside everything as a free for all when ORAS was released. But its certainly no slouch offensively for the tier and easily sets up kills, BP was just the tip of the iceberg. Bear in mind this is UU the offensive presence is vastly different from OU.
It sweeps with ease in UU, this was seen first hand, it didn't need to really BP for most part. You can't really compare the two it has speed boost + immediate offensive presence + coverage.
Um. Sleep clause.
It's a long time i wait for smeargle in UU i think he can be a pretty cool utility lead. But with his low stats he can't do others things really good and its pretty easily to know what set he had i think he had a real niche in current UU but he was easily outclassed by some other eh setter (empoleon mamoswine galvantula azelf etc)
For venomoth. I really like this mon but he can't do anything in the current uu.
And Gothitelle it's a long time i wait for try it i think he can be pretty cool in current uu but with his low speed he really need a big support.
For venomoth. I really like this mon but he can't do anything in the current uu.
And Gothitelle it's a long time i wait for try it i think he can be pretty cool in current uu but with his low speed he really need a big support.
Here are my thoughts:
Smeargle: I thought this thing was banned because of its insane movepool. How did a single Baton Pass nerf drop it down to UU? Anyways, it's probably still going to do well in UU because of dat movepool.
Venomoth: This thing's main use was to pass Quiver Dances, so I don't think it'll be viable without it. He even dropped to RU.
Gothitelle: Completely useless without Shadow Tag. Let it drop.
Smeargle: I thought this thing was banned because of its insane movepool. How did a single Baton Pass nerf drop it down to UU? Anyways, it's probably still going to do well in UU because of dat movepool.
Venomoth: This thing's main use was to pass Quiver Dances, so I don't think it'll be viable without it. He even dropped to RU.
Gothitelle: Completely useless without Shadow Tag. Let it drop.
Smeargle was banned because it was an incredible Baton Pass user as it could pass either Geomancy or Quiver Dance boosts fairly easily.
Venomoth, though it was mostly effective because it could Baton Pass Quiver Dance boosts, it makes a fairly effective sweeper with access to Sleep Powder, Quiver Dance, and Tinted Lens, which allows it to smash what would otherwise be good checks thanks to their resistances.
You're right that Gothitelle is useless though
But with dat movepool, Smeargle should have other uses. Sweeper and wall are out, but there must be more it can do...
I think Venomoth is outclassed by other UU sweepers, but it does have a decent niche.
Gothitelle is sh*t.
Grass does suck.
Holy crap, this is without rain!? You're right, we should suspect this thing. But you forgot to leave out the obvious reason to ban it: it becomes insanely fast in the rain.
edit: Only base 70 speed? Never mind, Mega Sceptile is faster.
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thesecondbest
Just Kidding I'm First
"Maybe if Baton Pass gets banned/looked at in OU then we /might/ revisit Scolipede but for now, this bug is way too good for the UU metagame :]" Calloflochie's vote
"Baton Pass + Speed Boost + actual offenses/STABs/coverage make Scolipede completely uncounterable and impossible to stop from either facilitating its own sweep or passing to a teammate for a snackwrap." Meru's vote, Baton Pass is uncounterable
"I can speak from my own experiences that this thing is absolute cancer, based on SD pass alone. I ran SD + Megahorn + BP + EQ/Protect and both moves had their own merits, with EQ allowing Scolly to focus more on cleaning shit and Protect allowing it to get an almost free +2 Speed boost, with Sash intact. I gave it simple Memento and Screens support from Whimsicott and Azelf (yeah, what does that remind you of??), slapped on a few recipients (Mega-Altaria, CB Jirachi, and Blackglasses Krookodile), and I watched opposing teams basically get ripped to shreds by one of my 3 sweepers or Scolipede itself. This strategy is flat out uncompetitive, and I'm sure that there's still a couple sets Scolly can easily pull of that are also very uncompetitive, and turn, this is not healthy for this tier, regardless of the fact that there are still tons of other broken shit out there.
Anyways, nuff said. I've had enough of this cancer; it's time to finally get rid of this thing." dingbat's vote
Overall most votes said that sd was good, spikes was good, but bp made it broken. I think with the power creep from xy to oras, especially the introduction of stuff like Mandibuzz in the tier, it can get a retest. It might still be broken, but there is at least a reason to retest it.
Scolipede is broken because it naturally gains speed every turn, has access to way better coverage aka eq which kills steal types while bug+poison covers what eq doesnt, has SD and is bulky enough to setup on most the tier, can be a spikes lead that can also pass subs+speed or just speed by itself. Also on venomoth I have seen some really cool sets and techniques from frens, it seems like a good addition to the tier.
Actually, Venomoth didn't drop to RU, it was RU when UU banned it, effectively banning it there as well. Now that it is unbanned from UU, it is now available to use back in RU because it was never actually banned there.
And to make my post not useless, Scolipede could possibly be retested, but I feel people severely downplay its offensive sets. SD+3 Attacks may be a bit risky, but has great coverage and after a single SB outspeeds everything to +1 Haxorus, plus it can almost always get up some Spikes or T-Spikes thanks to its high speed and Focus Sash.
Yeah seriously Scolipede is dangerous I used a Spikes team with SD Scolipede as a cleaner and it's scary. All that's really guaranteed is SD and maybe Megahorn so you have 2-3 slots to pick and choose what you absolutely steamroll over. Also, because of its good Speed and Speed Boost, it can afford to run an Adamant nature for a bit of extra power.
Also I've never played with Spikes but you could probably pair it up with some other strong sweepers (Lucario etc) and kill things
Also I've never played with Spikes but you could probably pair it up with some other strong sweepers (Lucario etc) and kill things
Scolipede would centralize the metagame around Hazard Stacking like when Deo-D was OU. I honestly think that it would compress too many vital Offense roles (Spikes, Sweeper, LG Cleaner) to the point where offense can run more offensive Pokemon and break the framework, ultimately making the theoretical UU meta unbearable for balance and defensive teams.
The thing is that made Scolipede so powerful was that it couldn't be countered, because it could always just baton pass if its matchup wasnt good. Now, it will have to either switch and lose its boosts or try to beat its opponent. Just off the top of my head I can name some pokemon that can beat it, such as Forretress and Mandibuzz who can also clear away its hazards, Vaporeon, Fletchinder, Mega Aggron, Crobat if Scolipede doesn't carry rock slide and Porygon 2.
I mean Scolipede could always just use Baton Pass without using other boosting moves like SD or Iron Defense, which was still part of the problem as well. Scoli still has a good amount of versatility even with the nerf (Spikes + Endeavor, SD, all-out attacker) and can easily combine two of the roles into one if it so chooses. It's hard to say if Scoli's versatility would still be too much for the meta unless it gets an actual retest though.
I wasn't around here when Scoli was in UU, and from what I hear it was very powerful. But, with the baton pass nerf, scolipede may be slightly less powerful that it was. Just saying, I feel like we should suspect Scoli just to see how the meta has changed since it was in UU. I feel like this is exactly what happened with Victini (#freevictini) and nothing really changed with that. UU is already bulky af and we need some wall breakers who aren't deadweight against offense. Most of our wall breakers aren't but they are still weak to faster teams (hax, Hera). I feel li scolipede might even be healthy for the meta. It might encourage more Rhyp usage, for one, and Rhyperior is a G. On mobile so sorry for length but those are my thoughts.
I went and read through the Scolipede vote thing, and either I'm missing big points or the Baton Pass thing was secondary. I mean, it's a powerful asset to have, being able to utterly screw up teams with one move, but the Pass seemeed secondary. It just has so much raw power, can outspeed most of the tier, and resists or is neutral to a load of types, offensive or defensive.
If we got that tested, I'd have to see it in action for myself, but it seems broken on paper.
If we got that tested, I'd have to see it in action for myself, but it seems broken on paper.
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