np: OU Suspect Testing Round 5 - Sandstorm (Excadrill/Thundurus Banned)

[Pocket]

Can't argue with that, although you would need to pop the balloon first. HP Fire is definitely superior for quickly dispatching Ferrothorn, Forretress, and Scizor, which is better than just Excadrill. Maybe use Scarf Zone on a Drought team, lol (j/k).

HP Water on a Rain team also lets Magnezone trap and 2HKO specially defensive Heatran, where its STAB move fails to OHKO. Scarf Zone in general also comes in handy against SD Lucario.

Scarf Zone isn't solely a Steel Trapper, though, unlike the Charge Beam set. It also serves as a good check against Tornadus, Thundurus, Terrakion, and Landorus while possessing Volt Switch to gain momentum.

 

[alamaster]

my favorite set is charge beam, tbolt, sub, hp ice to beat gliscor, dragons and grass types. It also kos exca at +4 or 5 I think and if they have a ferrothorn it's not hard to get up that high.

 

[His Eminence Lord Poppington II]

flash cannon also works, as well as thunder over tbolt if you have rain support.

 

[BurningMan]

my favorite set is charge beam, tbolt, sub, hp ice to beat gliscor, dragons and grass types. It also kos exca at +4 or 5 I think and if they have a ferrothorn it's not hard to get up that high.

yeah i love that set, if they have ferrothorn your basically guaranteed to get 2 kills and its also cool against Smash Pass teams.

 

[Blue_Star]

has anyone ever tried using Sharpedo? in rain, it's an excellent late-game sweeper, since it has blaziken's attack and ability, and rain waterfall does a ton. It's also worth noting that the most used physical wall, Gliscor, is weak to waterfall, especially in rain. I've been using it with toxic spikes, because, if you use protect, they take extra damage, which is nice. I'm also using breloom alongside it to weaken skarmory, kill ferrothorn, etc.

 

[badabing]

Yeah sharpedo is great in the rain and omg I love running it wit tspikes too. I prefer the raw physical attacker to mix though because I don't like losing to blissey and relying on pumps acc and splitting evs when he is wielding that massive dick of an atk. On the coverage slot I like Ice fang for nite, viriz, and loom. Good talk

 

[Zapdos Brannigan]

Don't forget about QUagsire and Gastrodon as viable Excadrill counters. I smiled just about every time I see an drill and my quag is still at good health. IMO quagsire is the best excadrill counter or at least on par with gliscor. While I have never used it, I image it is somewhat similar with gastrodon, although you'd have to be careful if the excadrill has a SD or two under its belt.

Also, in general you would be amazed how many people try to set up WHILE Quagsire is out and already shown that it can take the hits from that poke without problem. Quagsire is definitely very underrated.

 

[Darusare]

My problem with sharpedo is the damn mach punchers
If excadrill gets banned (i dont think it will but if)
then sharpedo will definately be top tier

 

[Rurushu]

It's kinda hard to use something that's utterly useless on the defensive side like sharpedo. If he takes a hidden power fire on the switch with rain up then he's already weak enough to be one shotted by a bullet punch. He may be a cool sweeper, but i don't think there's enough room in B/W to use something that has no safe switches and is weak to every single priority move in the game.

 

[ginganinja]

Don't forget about QUagsire and Gastrodon as viable Excadrill counters

Yeah no. Firstly even max max bold Gastrodon gets OHKOed by +2 Adamant LO Excadrill EQ. Quagsire does slightly better, but still gets 2KOed if it switchs into the above Excadrills EQ (but without the +2 boost obv). So, sticking to the definition of "counter" Quagsire and Gastrodon both fail as they are either OHKOed or 2KOed by Excadrills attacks.

Even if you wanted to use them, the next big question is, "why would you". Gastrodon is really an excellent pokemon for checking Rain teams as well as Thundurus. For that, it needs special defence investment which means it must either lose out on special threats such as Thundurus and some rain threats, or losing out on the physical stuff you want it to check. Quagsire is kinda in a similar boat in that with Specaial Defence investment it can check stuff like Thundurus, Reuniclus and even Volcarona (Provided no untimely crits or SDef drops occur)basically, those pokemon cannot do both, and in all honesty, there are pokemon out there that do a better job of checking Excadrill than Quagsire and Gastrodon.

 

[Zapdos Brannigan]

Maybe that is your experience, but mine is that Quagsire works quite well if you invest in defense, which it is stronger in anyways and (I believe) quag is better suited as a defensive wall anyways. Defensive quag almost always kills excadrill unless it has been weakened too much by other things beforehand. Assuming you have scald/waterfall and e-quake, it easily 2HKO's balloon drill and E-quake OHKO's drill otherwise.

 

[alphatron]

Seismic Toss + Soft Boiled will kill you before you reach +5 or +6 necessary to finish it off.

+3 sun boosted fire blast from nuetral natured 0 EV Volcorona vs. 252/0 Blissey: 67.8% - 79.8%

This is all assuming that Blissey switches in to counter you, and if that's the case, you can easily get to +4 at least without any worries.

 

[Maxb]

Maybe that is your experience, but mine is that Quagsire works quite well if you invest in defense, which it is stronger in anyways and (I believe) quag is better suited as a defensive wall anyways. Defensive quag almost always kills excadrill unless it has been weakened too much by other things beforehand. Assuming you have scald/waterfall and e-quake, it easily 2HKO's balloon drill and E-quake OHKO's drill otherwise.

Quagsire doesn't even OHKO Excadrill with EQ (78.45 - 92.81%), while Excadrill 2hkos.

 

[New World Order]

Quagsire is a complete monster and I have no ****ing clue what people are smoking, having it UU. However, physical Quagsire is more suited to taking on DD Dragons than Excadrill, there's better ways to deal with Excadrill than some1 who gets 2HKOd

 

[-Tsunami-]

Quagsire beats so many threats; with another physical wall such as Gliscor / Skarmory, you have a very good physically defensive core. Sweepers like CM Jirachi and Bulk Up Toxicroak are just laughed at by Quagsire. As I said, when you're using Quagsire you should always have another physical wall, as pokemon like Dragonite and Excadrill can 2HKO Quagsire with Outrage / Earthquake respectively.

 

[Texas Cloverleaf]

On the topic of Excadrill counters, you would be shocked how many people switch in their Excadrill to force out my Jirachi only to get smacked in the face with a rain boosted Water Pulse. SubCM Rachi is such a douche :D

 

[Drifloon]

The point is that whatever Nite set you use, you will get walled by something.

Seriously, your schooling me about bad arguments and your doing this? Jellicent and Gastrodon finish off Volcarona before he does anything meaningful. A combination of Toxic + Recover plus their natural bulk will make you gasp for breathes as you struggle to score 50% hits after +2.
But then you get walled by Heatran.


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Seismic Toss + Soft Boiled will kill you before you reach +5 or +6 necessary to finish it off.


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All I'm seeing in that thread is "it balances the metagame because it takes cares of a D-Nite and Volca, Yanmega and Zapodos are not important and this debate is so last gen".

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Stall is defined by setting LAYERS of Toxic Spikes, Spikes, Toxic, Paralysis, Burns, Roars and Whirlwinds and switching constantly into relevant walls (Skarmpiss core) as you chip away their health slowly while using recovery moves and relevant weather (optional) to hinder their options further. SR would be like a last minute salt throw to stall teams.



I'd make a team with sash Cloyster and proceed to take half your team!


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I'm gonna repeat this again because it was conveniently ignored:

"SR would be "equal" if it dealt constant damage to all types, it was one of many elemental rocks, it took more than one step to set-up, rapid spin is a TM or it didn't deal so much damage in the first place seeing how its an entry hazard."

Although this was from yesterday, I'll still take the time to respond since you were talking to me.

Gastrodon doesn't have enough bulk to take boosted bug buzz's, and Jellicent takes around 40% from +2 ChestoRest iirc. But if you have chesto rest, it also means you can set up all over Jellicent while taking about 18% from scalds. Now you're at +6/+6/+6 and can 2hko Jellicent. At this point it doesnt matter if you're toxiced, 1 hit will ko everything. The only thing stopping it at this point is like, Heatran and Azumarill lol. Gastro is the same, but is one hitted.

Dragonite fucks shit up without stealth rock. That is all.

 

[New World Order]

Just because a pokemon will bet walled by something doesn't mean its not broken. Look at Blaziken, its hard countered by Slowbro, doesn't keep it in OU does it? Even though Dragonite would have pokemon who wall it depending on the coverage moves, having to run a specific pokemon just for Dragonite is just too much. I have no idea why Dragon is still trying to argue for a Stealth Rock ban. Its not even that overcentralizing, I see many people running Dragonites without spin/magic bounce support.

 

[Jaetheho]

oh come on. people run specific pokemon for Excadrill_

 

[Drifloon]

oh come on. people run specific pokemon for Excadrill_

These "specific" pokemon can actually do stuff though.

 

[New World Order]

oh come on. people run specific pokemon for Excadrill_

No they don't, the pokemon the run can check a plethora of other threats. Bronzong checks just about every sand team and dragon. Skarmory checks just about every physical attacker. Subtect Toxic Staller Gliscor checks pretty much the entire game.

 

[Pocket]

By the way, what are the regulations for event-only exclusive moves with fixed nature?

I've seen logs of Scarf Eruption Heatran owning shit in the sun, but Eruption Heatran's fixed nature is Quiet.

Raikou with Aura Sphere can be used in ladder with any nature, but only Rash Raikou with Aura Sphere exists in reality.

The PO server would prevent these Pokemon from being used with incompatible natures, but in Smogon's server there are no such regulations. So I am guessing that it is acceptable to legitimately use a Timid Raikou with Aura Sphere or Timid Heatran with Eruption, for instance? Or would that be similar to 'abusing the system?' (ie using an OU mon in UU ladder when mods were still scrambling to get the tiering back up).

I'm curious, because I'm using an Aura Sphere Raikou, Timid Nature, and I don't want to be kicked out of the server for using an unregulated set.

EDIT: Hmm, the Smogon Dex distinguishes a Raikou with Aura Sphere from the ones without, so I guess it is a kick-worthy behavior: http://www.smogon.com/bw/pokemon/raikou

 

[Mario With Lasers]

I *think* it would be similar to abusing the Fly glitch in the old, old Smogon Shoddy Server, so you're better not using it and calling a mod whenever your opponent uses it, but taking them into account when teambuilding because people are dicks.

 

[Drifloon]

By the way, what are the regulations for event-only exclusive moves with fixed nature?

I've seen logs of Scarf Eruption Heatran owning shit in the sun, but Eruption Heatran's fixed nature is Quiet.

Raikou with Aura Sphere can be used in ladder with any nature, but only Rash Raikou with Aura Sphere exists in reality.

The PO server would prevent these Pokemon from being used with incompatible natures, but in Smogon's server there are no such regulations. So I am guessing that it is acceptable to legitimately use a Timid Raikou with Aura Sphere or Timid Heatran with Eruption, for instance? Or would that be similar to 'abusing the system?' (ie using an OU mon in UU ladder when mods were still scrambling to get the tiering back up).

I'm curious, because I'm using an Aura Sphere Raikou, Timid Nature, and I don't want to be kicked out of the server for using an unregulated set.

EDIT: Hmm, the Smogon Dex distinguishes a Raikou with Aura Sphere from the ones without, so I guess it is a kick-worthy behavior: http://www.smogon.com/bw/pokemon/raikou

I'm pretty sure you can get banned if your opponent reports it to the mods.

Anyways, it's like level 1 donphan; illegal, but people still use it.

 

[Pocket]

In this case, I wouldn't call myself a dick, but rather uninformed.

Ah well, there goes the perfect Timid Raikou I've been using, unless I settle for Weather Ball (any nature, right??) or Shadow Ball ;[ (either way cock-blocked by Ferrothorn and Ttar). There also goes my future plans of using Eruption Heatran in the sun :Z