Too bad most of the things that know Ice Shard cannot switch into Mence. You're better off trying to argue for Bronzong's ability to switch into Mence instead.To be perfectly honest, Salamence's ban was almost entirely meaningless. Salamence is no threat to a team with anyone knowing Ice Shard.
Not exactly the point. The thing is, when you ban the top dog, another will rise in it's stead. That's why it's meaningless to ban a Pokemon based on over centralization or in an attempt to "diversify" the metagame.Why do people keep recycling the "If you ban one thing, you'll ban everything!" argument?
No, it's not. This is the same misconception that disgruntled Salamence fans keep repeating; that the banning of the top pokemon automatically means that the next pokemon down is bannable.Not exactly the point. The thing is, when you ban the top dog, another will rise in it's stead. That's why it's meaningless to ban a Pokemon based on over centralization or in an attempt to "diversify" the metagame.
But we don't ban a Pokemon based on overcentralisation. Those who think so don't know how the system works. Overcentralisation is a symptom of a Pokemon being broken, not the cause.Not exactly the point. The thing is, when you ban the top dog, another will rise in it's stead. That's why it's meaningless to ban a Pokemon based on over centralization or in an attempt to "diversify" the metagame.
Gyarados will probably rise to the rank of top sweeper but it has problems with things like Shaymin, Celebi, Rotom-A and Vaporeon with HP Electric. Lucario can potentially take everything out if it would be able to run Swords Dance, Close Combat, Extremespeed, Crunch, Stone Edge, and Ice Punch and have perfect prediction but the fact is it can't do either and has hard counters if it doesn't run the right moves. I still don't agree with banning Salamence but it was definitely more broken than any sweeper currently in OU since it only needed to run 5 moves to be unstopable and even if it didn't predict perfectly, it could still do plenty of damage to things that switched in on it.Not exactly the point. The thing is, when you ban the top dog, another will rise in it's stead. That's why it's meaningless to ban a Pokemon based on over centralization or in an attempt to "diversify" the metagame.
...wait, how come we totally forgot about Kingdra!? Of course Kingdra thrives in RD teams, thanks to Swift Swim; it can also abuse Sniper if you are not using rain.Nobody ever thinks about Kingdra? (If there is somebody who did, just lol.) He is faster than Nite and does well with the Heatran and FWG-dominant metagame, and his only weakness is much less exploited. Still loses to Flygon though, but definitely decent now.
Talk about four-moveslot syndrome...Reminds me of Murkrow in LC.Gyarados will probably rise to the rank of top sweeper but it has problems with things like Shaymin, Celebi, Rotom-A and Vaporeon with HP Electric. Lucario can potentially take everything out if it would be able to run Swords Dance, Close Combat, Extremespeed, Crunch, Stone Edge, and Ice Punch and have perfect prediction but the fact is it can't do either and has hard counters if it doesn't run the right moves. I still don't agree with banning Salamence but it was definitely more broken than any sweeper currently in OU since it only needed to run 5 moves to be unstopable and even if it didn't predict perfectly, it could still do plenty of damage to things that switched in on it.
I agree, but the distance between the best pokemon of the metagame and the second-best is subjective, and fluctuates depending on the state of the metagame. When Garchomp was banned, it was way above the rest of OU in terms of power. Back then, Salamence's usage was ranked, what, 11th, in the final month of Garchomp? I don't think anyone had a problem with Salamence's "brokenness" back then. We all argue how broken Salamence is now, but the Pokemon itself hasn't changed, only our attitudes towards it. That's why I (and other community members) think that the cycle of electing a "broken" pokemon will repeat.The relevant factor to determine something's banning is not whether or not it is at the top, but how far ahead it stands out from the rest of the metagame.
Salamence was number 11 in the first place cause of the overcentralization of Garchomp. Overall it was a better pokemon. It's the same with Dragonite before salamence was banned, much to my dismay. Now dragonite will rise in usage but unlike Salamence and garchomp it's easier to deal with cause it's the most balanced out of the three.I agree, but the distance between the best pokemon of the metagame and the second-best is subjective, and fluctuates depending on the state of the metagame. When Garchomp was banned, it was way above the rest of OU in terms of power. Back then, Salamence's usage was ranked, what, 11th, in the final month of Garchomp? I don't think anyone had a problem with Salamence's "brokenness" back then. We all argue how broken Salamence is now, but the Pokemon itself hasn't changed, only our attitudes towards it. That's why I (and other community members) think that the cycle of electing a "broken" pokemon will repeat.
Actually, that's incorrect. People didn't have a problem with Salamence's "brokeness" back then because it wasn't broken. Garchomp was banned before Platinum came out, and therefore before Salamence got Outrage; before Platinum, Salamence had to rely on Dragon Claw, which simply isn't powerful enough to make him broken. If Salamence had Outrage before Platinum, there's a very good chance he would've made it onto the initial suspect list along with Garchomp.I agree, but the distance between the best pokemon of the metagame and the second-best is subjective, and fluctuates depending on the state of the metagame. When Garchomp was banned, it was way above the rest of OU in terms of power. Back then, Salamence's usage was ranked, what, 11th, in the final month of Garchomp? I don't think anyone had a problem with Salamence's "brokenness" back then. We all argue how broken Salamence is now, but the Pokemon itself hasn't changed, only our attitudes towards it. That's why I (and other community members) think that the cycle of electing a "broken" pokemon will repeat.
Thought this was worth looking at, the removal of Salamence is going to have a HUGE effect on the OU metagame, and as such, it will take time, but soon we will be seeing new sets for pokemon, that absolutely rip to shreds teams built like this, and we will once again have progress in the metagame. So yes you are right, teams will be looking like this, but things will be changing.Don't you love every team:
1. Heatran
2. Bulky Water
3. Rotom-H/Zapdos
4. Celebi/Shaymin
5. Suicide Lead / Tyranitar / Flygon or Dragonite / Fighting Type / Extra Steel Type / Extra Water Type / Blissey (if stall)
6. Suicide Lead / Tyranitar / Flygon or Dragonite / Fighting Type / Extra Steel Type / Extra Water Type / Blissey (if stall)
You almost nailed it on the spot some comments about it are in bold. I don't really see Heatran getting so much usage for so long as the FWG cores are going to be popular at first soon enough the 'G' will stand for Ground instead of Grass. When this happens I think that Heatran's usage will go down so you should just replace Heatran with Steel in general for that. For all of the teams reluctant to get rid of Heatran and once they realize that Grass isn't that great of a type Flygon will be used as a partner with Heatran. Zapdos / Starmie will then get even more use as a check to Flygon and each other. Soon enough the Metagame may become Stagnant again.1. Steel Type
2. Bulky Water
3. Rotom-H/Zapdos
4. Celebi/Shaymin questioning how long their usage will stay like this, I would say Ground type / Flygon will take this place soon.
5. Suicide Lead / Tyranitar / Flygon or Dragonite / Fighting Type / Extra Steel Type / Extra Water Type / Blissey (if stall) / Spin Blocker
6. Suicide Lead / Tyranitar / Flygon or Dragonite / Fighting Type / Extra Steel Type / Extra Water Type / Blissey (if stall) / Spin Blocker
Garchomp had 80 Base special too, but Chain Chomp still saw play. I've always liked ScarfGon with Draco Meteor/Fire Blast/EQ/U-Turn.Does anybody else think that Flygon might be able to run a mixed set? I mean, sure it has only 80 Base SpAtk, but with access to Draco Meteor and Fire Blast, as well as a STAB on EQ, it might just be able to tear down walls. Not to the same extent as Mence of course.
This is the Chainchomp set, right? I can see Flygon running a similar set, but instead of trying to set-up a swords dance and sweep, it can go U-turn to bluff the Scarf set against slower opponents.Garchomp @Life Orb
EVs: 16 Attack / 252 Special Attack / 240 Speed
Nature: Lonely OR Naughty
- Swords Dance
- Earthquake
- Draco Meteor
- Fire Blast