SPOILERS! Scarlet & Violet Leaks Thread - Data/Mechanics

[Worldie]

Battle bond is still really good though so post home Greninja will be back if it drops, since now they have to be treated as the same pokemon since ash-gren is the same pokemon as regular greninja now only with a stat change when battle bond triggers.

I'd disagree with that for one reason: it's now a beefed up Beast Boost, aka it's lost on swapping out. And it doesn't come with the free buff on Water Shuriken either.
Ofc I may be wrong, but I hardly see Battle Bond really being used over just protean, you don't have that payout of "I have the transformation, now even if i'm forced out I have that scary wincon in the back the enemy has to play around".
Expecially if you're choiced, it'll be very easy to abuse and force it out, unless you're cleaning lategame, in which case you've already won most of the times.

I'm really skeptical that Greninja will make a splash when Cinderace and Meowscarada do everything he wants to do and better... except setting spikes I suppose, but Cinderace provides one of the very few easy to access hazard removals so...

I'm betting on Greninja joining Blaziken in UUBL

 

[Peaches144]

Delibird is the backbone of the egg laying economy.

Not any more, now it's Bombirdier, just straight dropping the eggs into the pic-a-nic basket from the sky

 

[Pushinguplilacs]

The only problems with the new Tauros is that the 3 new forms replace Sheer Force with Cud Chew and there doesn't seem to be any reason to use the pure Fighting one over the other 3, it doesn't even have any interesting moves the other new forms don't. It even learns fewer moves than the Normal one.

I mean the water one has intimidate and aqua jet. If nothing else it's a welcome vgc intimidate option with more physical bulk then gyarados.

 

[Worldie]

I mean the water one has intimidate and aqua jet. If nothing else it's a welcome vgc intimidate option with more physical bulk then gyarados.

Also without that slight inconvenience of 4x weak to electric and being weak to rock slide

 

[viol and bass]

Wait so what's the difference between the 2 Dudunsparce forms? I tried to stay up to date with this thread but I gave up after a while

Edit: R_N Ahh, okay, thanks.

 

[R_N]

Wait so what's the difference between the 2 Dudunsparce forms? I tried to stay up to date with this thread but I gave up after a while

as far as we're aware, both it & maushold are completely aesthetic

 

[Yung Dramps]

I'd disagree with that for one reason: it's now a beefed up Beast Boost, aka it's lost on swapping out. And it doesn't come with the free buff on Water Shuriken either.
Ofc I may be wrong, but I hardly see Battle Bond really being used over just protean, you don't have that payout of "I have the transformation, now even if i'm forced out I have that scary wincon in the back the enemy has to play around".
Expecially if you're choiced, it'll be very easy to abuse and force it out, unless you're cleaning lategame, in which case you've already won most of the times.

It's even worse than what you make out here, because apparently the new Battle Bond doesn't even let you regain those boosts if you switch back in and get another KO. If you blow your one-time Super Moxie, that's it.

Frankly, can't say I'm too torn up about it. Earlier I made a smarmy jab at Ash-Greninja in light of its removal, and while that was in large part exaggerated hate for the luls I genuinely was always uncomfortable with it as an anime tie-in. Stuff like the Ash Hat Pikachus and spiky eared Pichu are/were completely harmless due to just being alt costumes for shitmons, but actually tying a major unofficial competitive Pokemon to a cross-promotion for an anime that ended 6 years ago is like the Blue Flare/Bolt Strike Victini problem brought to absurd new heights. Technically this issue hasn't been and won't be fully resolved unless Battle Bond is removed outright but for me at least it's received enough of a net nerf to where I can accept it as a compromise.

 

[Divine Retribution]

It's even worse than what you make out here, because apparently the new Battle Bond doesn't even let you regain those boosts if you switch back in and get another KO. If you blow your one-time Super Moxie, that's it.

Frankly, can't say I'm too torn up about it. Earlier I made a smarmy jab at Ash-Greninja in light of its removal, and while that was in large part exaggerated hate for the luls I genuinely was always uncomfortable with it as an anime tie-in. Stuff like the Ash Hat Pikachus and spiky eared Pichu were completely harmless due to just being alt costumes for shitmons, but actually tying a major unofficial competitive Pokemon to a cross-promotion for an anime that ended 6 years ago is like the Blue Flare/Bolt Strike Victini problem brought to absurd new heights. Technically this issue hasn't been and won't be fully resolved unless Battle Bond is removed outright but for me at least it's received enough of a net nerf to where I can accept it as a compromise.

Would you have the same issue if Ash-Greninja was rebranded like... Bonded Greninja or something and kept mechanically the same as in Gen 7? That way it wouldn't explicitly reference the anime.

It does seem kind of weird to have that one anime reference in the games, which otherwise don't reference the anime at all as far as I'm aware.

 

[Bugboy]

According to some video information I estimated that the debuff is likely to be 3/4 (if it is multiplied), and it is unlikely to be 2/3 or 1/1.3.

I sure hope so. I could see chien-pao and chi-yu sticking around if the debuff is 3/4x to be honest.

 

[Eriorguez]

as far as we're aware, both it & maushold are completely aesthetic

Didn't Dudunsparce have different weight according to the form? Could be relevant for Low Kick issues.

 

[thecolinater5]

I'm really skeptical that Greninja will make a splash when Cinderace and Meowscarada do everything he wants to do and better... except setting spikes I suppose, but Cinderace provides one of the very few easy to access hazard removals so..

well actually meowscarada has access to both spikes just like gren

 

[Peaches144]

Didn't Dudunsparce have different weight according to the form? Could be relevant for Low Kick issues.

Both weights fall in the same weight class for low kick

 

[Rot8er_ConeX]

Doing some surface-level research, the Chinese film "Hi, Mom" is literally a comedy movie about Time Travel.


And it was released in 2021.

10 years after the supposed Time Travel ban.


Yeah, I don't buy the 'Mons being time travelers.

From what I understand, there was never an official time travel ban, but there was a statement made on the CCP's 90 year anniversary that many writers took as a time-travel ban, and therefore self-censored.

 

[Spindash65]

I think people are sleeping on just HOW dangerous Annihilape will be:

bulk: 110/80/90 is in the same league as Swampert’s 100/90/90. Yes, Water/Ground is a far superior defensive typing, but this is still incredibly good

speed/offenses: 115/50/90 is magnificently minmaxed. Base 90 speed isn’t as good as it once was, but it doesn’t NEED to be super fast in order to be scary, due to that affortmentioned bulk.

similarly, Base 115 Attack isn’t very impressive nowadays without either an ability or STAB/veryhigh base power. Fortunately:

Typing: FIGHTING/GHOST. Annihilape only shared this with a single Pokémon, that is currently banned to Ubers. There are exactly TWO Pokémon in the entire National Dex that resist the combination of this dual STAB: H-Zoroark, and H-Zorua. This means that a lot of the time, Annihilape won’t even NEED to use coverage moves, and can instead opt for a move like Substitute, Bulk Up, U-Turn, or the like

more Details on its flexibility with moves to complement its sheer chaddery:

Close Combat: tried and true, high base power and accuracy

Cross Chop: not as likely of a choice, as it is both weaker and less accurate. It does have a boost crit rate, however, and doesn’t lower Annihilape’s excellent bulk, so there could be room for experimentation

Drain Punch: BP 75 STAB Hp draining move on a Pokémon built like Swampert on Roller Skates. Delicious

Ghost coverage is much less powerful in comparison, but the typing helps crank up the damage some more:

Shadow Claw: BP 70, hi crit rate.

Shadow Punch: BP 60 Punching Move. Could be used alongside the new item that boosts punches if Rage Fist isn’t useful

Rage Fist: BP 50, “stronger the more you get hurt”. I don’t know how that works, but given the generally low base power of most physical ghost attacks, and the generally high bulk of the Apes of Wrath, it’s entirely possible this move could be very dangerous

Extra moves:

Elemental Punches: Ice Punch for Dragons or Thunderpunch for slightly more damage on Corv/Pex could be used, though the main STAB works just fine

Bulk Up: chunky AND hits hard. Grape Ape can absolutely use both effects of Bulk Up to its advantage

Substitute: blocks status, and wifh 2 immunities, it’s not too hard to find chances to drop in and set up a sub on the switch

 

[Magnus0]

Is there any information on the affection mechanic? Is it basically unavoidable like in BDSP or can you ignore it if you want?

 

[Yung Dramps]

Would you have the same issue if Ash-Greninja was rebranded like... Bonded Greninja or something and kept mechanically the same as in Gen 7? That way it wouldn't explicitly reference the anime.

It does seem kind of weird to have that one anime reference in the games, which otherwise don't reference the anime at all as far as I'm aware.

Eeeeeehh. Even if you were to scrub out direct anime references (which for the record you can't seeing as it still has the distractingly obvious replication of Ash's hair and shade of red from his hat), you're still left with a form change type that literally no other Pokemon in the entire series has with no compelling explanation as to how it ties to Greninja specifically in regards to game canon, all the while the other two Kalos starters are completely left behind. The only way to resolve this I'd perhaps be satisfied with would be to make a game where the Bond Phenomenon was the entire focus with Battle Bond forms being handed out to way more Pokemon, and even then you'd be better off just bringing back Mega Evolution.

 

[KaenSoul]

It's even worse than what you make out here, because apparently the new Battle Bond doesn't even let you regain those boosts if you switch back in and get another KO. If you blow your one-time Super Moxie, that's it.

Frankly, can't say I'm too torn up about it. Earlier I made a smarmy jab at Ash-Greninja in light of its removal, and while that was in large part exaggerated hate for the luls I genuinely was always uncomfortable with it as an anime tie-in. Stuff like the Ash Hat Pikachus and spiky eared Pichu are/were completely harmless due to just being alt costumes for shitmons, but actually tying a major unofficial competitive Pokemon to a cross-promotion for an anime that ended 6 years ago is like the Blue Flare/Bolt Strike Victini problem brought to absurd new heights. Technically this issue hasn't been and won't be fully resolved unless Battle Bond is removed outright but for me at least it's received enough of a net nerf to where I can accept it as a compromise.

I think a good way to solve the Ash-Greninja problem is to finally allow starters to have 3 abilities like most Pokémon do and turn the new Battle Bond into a secondary ability for regular Greninja, so we won't have to worry about playing a demo for a 3DS game if we need one for competitive reasons.

 

[Worldie]

Is there any information on the affection mechanic? Is it basically unavoidable like in BDSP or can you ignore it if you want?

You should be able to ignore it as long as you don't use the pokemon camp.

Which however you kinda have to end up using to breed but if you don't breed during the plot...

 

[Ironmage]

A thought that occurred to me:

In previous gens, significant in-battle form changes overrode type-changing effects that occurred earlier (e.g. Aggron gets hit with Soak, then mega evolves. It will be Steel, not Water). If this persists into gen 9, there's a good chance it would interfere with terastal. Which is why I don't think it's a coincidence that no pokemon that appear in the files are capable of changing form while on the field. Palafin changes form while not on the field, while Battle Bond no longer includes a form change.

RIP Aegislash's chances for DLC.

 

[Worldie]

A thought that occurred to me:

In previous gens, significant in-battle form changes overrode type-changing effects that occurred earlier (e.g. Aggron gets hit with Soak, then mega evolves. It will be Steel, not Water). If this persists into gen 9, there's a good chance it would interfere with terastal. Which is why I don't think it's a coincidence that no pokemon that appear in the files are capable of changing form while on the field. Palafin changes form while not on the field, while Battle Bond no longer includes a form change.

RIP Aegislash's chances for DLC.

Ditto is in this game you know

 

[R_N]

You should be able to ignore it as long as you don't use the pokemon camp.

Which however you kinda have to end up using to breed but if you don't breed during the plot...

I'm assuming the Let's Go mechanic also boosts it so something tells me interacting with Star plot in any fashion will put your Pokemon on a timer

and doesnt the Titan sidequest have mandatory sandwiches? So that's another avenue

 

[RNGnoob]

 

[Perentie Fan]

Do we know what percentages are used for size variation, i.e. does it max out at 50% larger or smaller?

 

[R_N]

Ditto is in this game you know

Mimikyu & Eiscue too (the 2 forms are different internally)

View attachment 465569

VGC never allows Mythics so this is to scare a Battle Spot Singles player

 

[Rarycaris]

View attachment 465569

It was later confirmed it didn't work if I recall correctly.