Metagame SV OU Metagame Discussion v3

[kosecant]

Let's examine Darkrai's priority weakness.

252+ Atk Choice Band Rillaboom Grassy Glide vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Darkrai in Grassy Terrain: 205-243 (72.9 - 86.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Grassy Terrain recovery
Tera Grass has an 81.3% chance to OHKO, which costs your Tera while Darkrai can Tera Poison.

252+ Atk Choice Band Tera Normal Dragonite Extreme Speed vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Darkrai: 240-283 (85.4 - 100.7%) -- 6.3% chance to OHKO
Requires hazards to reliably kill from full, hope the Darkrai isn't Boots.

252 SpA Choice Specs Tera Fighting Iron Valiant Vacuum Wave vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Darkrai: 272-320 (96.7 - 113.8%) -- 75% chance to OHKO
Valiant is obviously used with Booster more, but Specs is a real set and Darkrai's presence might necessitate Vacuum Wave teched on. Unfortunately, it requires Tera like Rillaboom and Darkrai can Tera right back out like Rillaboom.

252+ Atk Black Glasses Supreme Overlord 5 allies fainted Tera Dark Kingambit Sucker Punch vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Darkrai: 170-200 (60.4 - 71.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Not even close. Ironically, Tera Poison hurts Darkrai in thi--what's that? Tera Fairy Darkrai (or just not Tera-ing at all) also bitch slaps 85% of the tier with not nearly enough overlap with Poison?

So all the priority that I've seen mentioned in the last few pages that really threatens Darkrai requires Tera on the user's side to threaten an OHKO and the most reliable can be blocked by Darkrai's own Tera. Unless you're extremely confident in your ability to make your opponent press their funny button first, this sounds like a resource exchange heavily lopsided in Darkrai's favor.

like i dont know why Darkrai has such a high bar to clear. The vast majority offensive threats do not get OHKO'd by priority. But suddenly this is an exchange "heavily lopsided in Darkrai's favor" like losing most of your HP in a metagame infested with hazards is something a sweeper wants to be doing ever. The mental gymnastics being preformed here is comical.

hypnosis is bad and has been talked to death. Please stop bringing it up.

talk about potential sets that would be actually used, like NP 3 attacks or choice specs/darkrai. They are good and potentially broken.

This argument has fallen into a fallacy I like to call "Always has the optimal set". This happens a lot when a pokemon has multiple viable sets. It is always presumed when arguing about a pokemon that it always has the best most viable set that it can run, which is not how it works in reality. Darkrai loses to fairies without a poison move. Darkrai loses to bulky steels and darks without a fighting move. Darkrai really needs a boosting move or Item to break through common walls. Darkrai needs boots to not get worn down quickly. All of these cannot be true at the same time, but everyone here just picks and chooses the best set that proves their point.

NP 3 attacks and choice specs are really good and threatening, but is highly vulneranble to revenge killing from the plethora of fast attackers and priority moves in the tier.

Choice scarf is excellent speed control and a great revenge killer, but is highly vulnerable to both hazards and priority, and struggles in breaking walls.

lifeorb does heavy damage but gets chipped into oblivion

Every set is strong, but has solid counterplay from meta pokeomn already in the tier

 

[Return to Zero]

This argument has fallen into a fallacy I like to call "Always has the optimal set". This happens a lot when a pokemon has multiple viable sets. It is always presumed when arguing about a pokemon that it always has the best most viable set that it can run, which is not how it works in reality. Darkrai loses to fairies without a poison move. Darkrai loses to bulky steels and darks without a fighting move. Darkrai really needs a boosting move or Item to break through common walls. Darkrai needs boots to not get worn down quickly. All of these cannot be true at the same time, but everyone here just picks and chooses the best set that proves their point.

Isn't this kind of why Volcarona is banned? Not every set could beat every hypothetical check to it, but every hypothetical check to it could be beaten by at least one set. To an extent, you have to assume that it has every set when you see it, because depending on whether it's decided to bring Ground or Poison or whatever else coverage, your winning matchup is suddenly in their favor instead. I know Volcarona was banned for other stuff as well and Nasty Plot isn't as good as Quiver Dance, but I don't think it's right to call this a fallacy when in battle Darkrai absolutely demands this level of caution until it plays its hand. Hell, Volcarona was hard-locked to HDB so that's an extra consideration.

Edit: Isn't this also a large part of why some people want Iron Valiant banned too?

 

[kosecant]

Isn't this kind of why Volcarona is banned? Not every set could beat every hypothetical check to it, but every hypothetical check to it could be beaten by at least one set. To an extent, you have to assume that it has every set when you see it, because depending on whether it's decided to bring Ground or Poison or whatever else coverage, your winning matchup is suddenly in their favor instead. I know Volcarona was banned for other stuff as well and Nasty Plot isn't as good as Quiver Dance, but I don't think it's right to call this a fallacy when in battle Darkrai absolutely demands this level of caution until it plays its hand. Hell, Volcarona was hard-locked to HDB so that's an extra consideration.

Edit: Isn't this also a large part of why some people want Iron Valiant banned too?

That’s a totally fair comparison. I think what makes it feel a little different to me is the opportunity cost for items on darkrai is generally higher than on Volc and Valiant.
Volc is always running HDB on basically every set. The only real choice you make when building with it is what Tera you want to beat a specific check.

valiant is pretty similar, where 9/10 times booster energy is the optimal item. HDB and Specs are both decently common, but the bigger decision is again, what moves you need to counter specific checks.

IMHO, Darkrai has a much bigger issue due to what it loses based on what item it needs. Like I said in my earlier post, it basically has to pick what it loses to, but with a wider pool of checks than Volc or valiant. Either immediate power, speed, or longevity are your choices, none of which are good things to be missing on an offensive Mon. I think the lack of an obvious optimal item hurts it quite a bit more than it seems at first, and that compounds with the 4mss that you already have issues with.

like I’ve said before, I could go either way on it getting banned, but my early suspicions on what darkrai struggles with have been mostly confirmed with the recent tournament matches it was involved in (and yes, I know that’s a small sample)

 

[Return to Zero]

hypnosis is good, y'all are just scared to take risks. everyone is acting like darkrai instantly faints if it misses a hypnosis, as though it's not possible to use as a switch-in punish with only the consequence of possibly losing momentum

This is not it. I'm sorry. 2/5 chance to waste a turn with 70/90/90 defenses is a death sentence in this metagame. Iron Valiant's similar 74/90/60 with a much better defensive typing makes it a minmaxed glass cannon by this tier's standards. Taking even 60% as punishment means you need to play extremely carefully around hazards and maybe Life Orb from then on. Bad Dreams isn't even part of the conversation with this thing. The reward for this risk just isn't high enough. I am also of the opinion that Darkrai should stay banned but this isn't really a good reason to ban it.

 

[kosecant]

hypnosis is good, y'all are just scared to take risks. everyone is acting like darkrai instantly faints if it misses a hypnosis, as though it's not possible to use as a switch-in punish with only the consequence of possibly losing momentum

0 Atk Ting-Lu Earthquake vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Darkrai: 127-151 (45.1 - 53.7%) -- 36.3% chance to 2HKO
0 Atk Ting-Lu Earthquake vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Darkrai: 127-151 (45.1 - 53.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after 1 layer of Spikes
0 SpA Clefable Moonblast vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Darkrai: 216-254 (76.8 - 90.3%) -- 25% chance to OHKO after 1 layer of Spikes
252+ Atk Kingambit Iron Head vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Darkrai: 162-192 (57.6 - 68.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after 1 layer of Spikes

Hypnosis is bad. Please stop.

 

[Heatranator]

Hypnosis is bad against offensive teams, that much I think is clear. However, against more stally teams, the 1/8th chip damage is pretty good. A core that I could see being good is darkrai + amoonguss + wish support. Darkrai and amoonguss are quite good defensively and amoonguss can spore opponents to trigger darkrai's bad dreams, while wish support allows darkrai to get into the game multiple times.

252+ Def Dondozo Body Press vs. 168 HP / 0 Def Abomasnow in Snow: 148-176 (40.7 - 48.4%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252 SpA Life Orb Darkrai Dark Pulse vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Dondozo: 247-292 (49 - 57.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Salt Cure
252 SpA Life Orb Darkrai Dark Pulse vs. 252 HP / 64 SpD Toxapex: 122-146 (40.1 - 48%) -- 99.6% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery and Salt Cure
This is without boosts, so yeah. Also against blissey.
+2 252 SpA Life Orb Darkrai Dark Pulse vs. 4 HP / 252+ SpD Blissey: 204-242 (31.2 - 37.1%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Salt Cure
Hypnosis is going to be good in certain scenarios, and shit in others.

Edit: oops, the first calc was accidently abomasnow as I didn't change it on the calc, my bad. Maybe abomasnow as the answer the metagame needs???? Here's the actual calc.
252+ Def Dondozo Body Press vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Darkrai: 192-228 (68.3 - 81.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

 

[Komodo_Drogo]

While I don't think darkrai is busted and it deserves a drop, comparing it to Iron Valiant isn't the support some of yall think it is. Valiant itself is another mon that people have pointed out as being somewhat problematic due to its coverage and having to play around booster energy.

There's enough things in the current meta to handle darkrai. OUPL has solid players, and the games where darkrai did appear, its influence wasn't extremely oppressive. Its affect on team-building isn't even that massive, muka had already seen experimentation prior. People already run ting for hazards, and just being a solid check. There's other checks but what was shown is that it's healthy among at least skilled players.

 

[TurquoiseLink]

Toedscruel @ Leftovers
Ability: Mycelium Might
Tera Type: Ground
EVs: 252 HP / 4 SpA / 252 SpD
Calm Nature
- Leech Seed
- Spore
- Rapid Spin
- Earth Power

Earth Power could also be Knock Off/Careful.
I could even see Giga Drain to threaten Hamurott.

Tera Ground is to lose the Hurricane weakness while increasing pressure on the fire ghosts and steel ghosts.

Has anyone else tried something similar to this? I've been trying it and found it to just not be quite bulky enough. I really like it so I want to see if anyone has any ideas before I scrap it completely. Maybe I need to do a ton of calcs to help find its limits.

In theory it should be able to switch in on most special attackers. 120 base SpD is huge and full investment. If the special attacker has options you can set up spore/leech seed which force good progress for a defensive pokemon regardless of whether they stay or switch. If the special attacker is walled and forced to switch, or you predict a grass switch, rapid spin makes good progress too.

Its difficult to spinblock. Scarf Gholdengo can't threaten it much and gets leech seeded. Nasty Plot Gholdengo needs to both click nasty plot on the switch in and pray for 2 turn sleeps or else earth power gets it. I haven't done all my calcs but Skeledirge and Ceruledge have to respect earth power.
Dragapult can be tricky but fortunately every Dragapult player leads it 99% of the time and instantly clicks uturn for some reason so its easy to scout the set.

Despite the low physical defence, it resists both ground and rock so it can often fight against common stealth rock setters to prevent them going up. Else resists stealth rock when it steps on them.

One big weakness I found was that it can't really come in on ceaseless edge, and if it steps on 3 spikes its much harder to switch in on a special attacker. Losing leftovers recovery is rough as it needs it + leech seed to spin multiple times in a match. Maybe needs a teammate that can trash Hamurott. Another option is boots + Alomomola.

Most of my time testing it was in the Gliscor era and Gliscor just crushed it. It also struggled with the Rillaboom/Sneasler core. I'm curious how it can perform now.

 

[DoofV3]

For threat level, max speed is the most threatening only because it outspeeds and snipes ID Corv. You have to run a shitton of EVs on Corv to even have a chance of clicking ID before taking a +2 Kowtow Cleave to the face. Black Glasses + Supreme overlord raises its damage output quite a bit.

In terms of personal preference, Lefties bulky Gambit I'd say is the most consistent because it can check Dengo and Pult throughout a match and has more "general" utility with defensive Tera + Sucker Punch to check key threats. That's still my go to set when teambuilding, as I find it much harder to sweep with Gambit compared to making use of its defensive qualities.

Old post but I agree with this. Kingambit with speed investment is a menace and such an anti-meta pick because it shits all over the slow bulky would be checks/status spreaders. I hadn't known true despair until I faced one of those, switched in my Skeledirge to try to burn it and it outsped and OHKOed it with Kowtow Cleave. He proceeded to keep going unabashed against the rest of my team. It was sobering.

 

[Just A Shroom God]

This argument has fallen into a fallacy I like to call "Always has the optimal set". This happens a lot when a pokemon has multiple viable sets. It is always presumed when arguing about a pokemon that it always has the best most viable set that it can run, which is not how it works in reality. Darkrai loses to fairies without a poison move. Darkrai loses to bulky steels and darks without a fighting move. Darkrai really needs a boosting move or Item to break through common walls. Darkrai needs boots to not get worn down quickly. All of these cannot be true at the same time, but everyone here just picks and chooses the best set that proves their point.

That's not a fallacy, that happens with most Pokemon actually. Sneasler could theoretically be beaten depending on its moveset by ghold, zapdos, or pex but, but if you didn't have the Pokemon that beat its set, it just won. A similar thing happened with Kyurem last gen: pp stall and all-out-attacker were both viable and required very different things to beat. Volc was in the same boat, most obviously. However, having the tools to beat every Pokemon with the right set does NOT make you broken. See volc in gen 7: sure, it CAN beat Heatran, Chansey, fini, and Pex depending on its move choice, but to hit each one of them it requires completely changing the set, while their standard sets do their job well enough. See Z-moves in general: they make nigh-every single Pokemon able to beat anything they want to, but often requires good prediction and the absolute right set to do that. And really, it all comes down to this: number of checks vs number of sets. And when you look at it that way, Darkrai actually is very far from banworthy! All these things check it:

darkrai checks

BE valiant
Specs Pult
Zama
Rilla (band tera grass grassy glide OHKOs)
a lot of random scarfers, ie enamorus or greninja
Offensive Tusk
tera'd waterpon
tera'd dnite

So, yep, large number of checks for a small number of sets, seems fine!.. until you look at that checks list again. If you noticed, every single thing there beats it because it outspeed and out-offenses it or have priority. And i didn't list any defensive counterplay because... there is none. I'm serious. Everything you think of gets obliterated at +2 or with some form of its coverage. Blissey or Clod? Psyshock. Clefable? Sludge Bomb. Ting-Lu? Focus Blast. Spdef Lando? You better believe it's got that ice beam, baby. So we get into a previously mentioned scenario with sneasler, you choose what checks to beat while just obliterating, except that this time the mon in question can be out-offensed. I think this will fool people into thinking that it's fine just because they can beat it with offense, while a whole teamstyle is being snuffed out. That's why I think it should be kept in Ubers.

Lastly, I wanted to bring up one more thing: Rampardos theorem. That's because I think some people will argue that completely destroying an entire teamstyle is fine, actually because Rampardos does it with stall! (actually rampardos kills itself with head smash but imagine like, demon mew from last gen or smth idk). Now, it is true you essentially cannot lose playing well with it. However, how does it do into other archetypes? The issue with Rampardos (and other dedicated taunt stallbreakers) is that they are much much worse when not facing stall, sort of like how the mannmelter is much much worse when not facing an enemy Pyro. The thing about Darkrai is that it still has that blazing fast 125 speed, that amazing coverage, and that decent bulk when facing offense which means, while maybe not 6-0ing the other team like it would defense, it still provides a "need-to-account-for-this-in-builder" amount of pressure. Consider Annihilape, which did basically the same thing.

 

[EpicGuy321]

i, for one, hope terapagos is clearly and unambiguously balanced in ou, because it has a really cool design. i hope it gets a rapid spin clone with no immunities, a super-high defense stat to deal with gambit, and an ability that's like aura break except it reverses protosynthesis and quark drive instead. i want terapagos to singlehandedly save ou so we can just play the game in peace and not have to fight like this

imagine it just has an ability that ignores the type chart. pretty sure it will have pre-nerf protean or something though, which might be broken

 

[DoofV3]

While I can see Hypnosis Darkrai being the Dire Claw Sneasler of its sets in terms of cheesiness, I do not think its the most problematic set of that Pokemon/the reason it would be banned.

That being said, losing to it would suck and in general I agree that Darkrai shouldn't really be dropped into the tier.

 

[Return to Zero]

these calcs have exactly as much to do with hypnosis as yours do. you use hypnosis to punish switch-ins, then set up if it hits or switch out if it misses.

Can I ask what the plan is if they don't switch out? Those calcs seem pretty realistic under the scenario of Darkrai whiffing a Hypnosis against three Pokemon that are 100% able and willing to try and duel it.

 

[Bakugames]

you use hypnosis to punish switch-ins, then set up if it hits or switch out if it misses.

Darkrai could also just punish a switch in by pressing the setup button to become a guaranteed threat on field instead of a 40% chance of not doing anything and having to switch out or get 2hkod. Hypnosis is very risky for not a lot of reward that couldn't be achieved with a 3 attack np set, which also is more flexible in what it can beat instead of needing to sacrifice a very precious moveslot for a hypnosis.

Also, "never happen if you play well"? The whole thing about hypnosis is that it'll punish you even if you play well if you miss. Ignoring the fact that your darkrai can hypnosis the wrong target (either the foe doesn't switch or doesnt bring in their darkrai counter immediately), now you let them bring their darkrai check for free with an unboosted darkrai, many of which can snowball, set up hazards, or just chip your team to make your darkrai much harder to use.

Hypnosis is a funny meme, but a meme nonetheless. Run specs or 3 attacks, theyre plenty strong and function as cleaners, breaking walls, sweepers etc

 

[Schpoonman]

like i dont know why Darkrai has such a high bar to clear. The vast majority offensive threats do not get OHKO'd by priority. But suddenly this is an exchange "heavily lopsided in Darkrai's favor" like losing most of your HP in a metagame infested with hazards is something a sweeper wants to be doing ever. The mental gymnastics being preformed here is comical.

hypnosis is bad and has been talked to death. Please stop bringing it up.

talk about potential sets that would be actually used, like NP 3 attacks or choice specs/darkrai. They are good and potentially broken.

This argument has fallen into a fallacy I like to call "Always has the optimal set". This happens a lot when a pokemon has multiple viable sets. It is always presumed when arguing about a pokemon that it always has the best most viable set that it can run, which is not how it works in reality. Darkrai loses to fairies without a poison move. Darkrai loses to bulky steels and darks without a fighting move. Darkrai really needs a boosting move or Item to break through common walls. Darkrai needs boots to not get worn down quickly. All of these cannot be true at the same time, but everyone here just picks and chooses the best set that proves their point.

NP 3 attacks and choice specs are really good and threatening, but is highly vulneranble to revenge killing from the plethora of fast attackers and priority moves in the tier.

Choice scarf is excellent speed control and a great revenge killer, but is highly vulnerable to both hazards and priority, and struggles in breaking walls.

lifeorb does heavy damage but gets chipped into oblivion

Every set is strong, but has solid counterplay from meta pokeomn already in the tier

You don't think forcing your opponent to spend their Tera is a big deal?

 

[Real Pikachu]

You guys act like Darkrai wouldn't body the entire tier with Terablast Fairy and Nasty Plot.

 

[RS25802580]

So that this isn’t just a joke post, I do think Darkrai has been pretty much debated to death now. People could go back and fourth with calcs and theoretical comparisons ad nauseum. Yeah there are a couple of tourney replays but a best of 1 tournament just isn’t generalizable to ladder. If it gets dropped so be it, it can be quickbanned pretty quick. I think Darkrai will be too much for OU and end up getting quickbanned, but it’s hard to say without seeing it in the ladder.

 

[Bakugames]

my scenario:

This post is very cherrypicked and weirdly written, but it is kinda funny how both scenarios involve burning tera, but yours is a positive while mine is a negative. Also why do you get to call the convo to move on with a condescending comment lol some people don't think darkrai is broken and they have good arguments, and the discussion has actually been pretty good (especially with the tour results! fun to discuss), other than trying to make fetch (hypnosis) happen

 

[kosecant]

252 SpA Gardevoir Moonblast vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Palossand: 190-225 (50.8 - 60.1%) -- 89.1% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
0 Atk Mold Breaker Tinkaton Gigaton Hammer vs. 248 HP / 8 Def Spidops: 144-171 (44.5 - 52.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
0 SpA Chimecho Draining Kiss vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Overqwil: 49-58 (15.7 - 18.6%) -- possible 6HKO
252+ Atk Sharpness Veluza Aqua Cutter vs. 236 HP / 0 Def Scizor: 160-189 (47 - 55.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock

these calcs have exactly as much to do with hypnosis as yours do. you use hypnosis to punish switch-ins, then set up if it hits or switch out if it misses. you're not sitting there like an oyster just spamming hypnosis against a check that's already out. none of those calcs actually happen, ever, if you play properly. (and before you say anything, it actually is better to use hypnosis instead of setting up on the switch, because if the hypnosis hits, you have a setup opportunity and a sleeping darkrai check)

also, you can use blunder policy to outspeed zama and pult if you miss but that's dangerous levels of heat

If you miss a hypnosis (a move you’d basically only use to get an upper hand on checks) these are moves you’re likely to get hit by. These all put darkrai in danger of priority and speed control mons KOing it. Covering your ears and calling people stupid when they disagree with you is childish. Stop embarrassing yourself

 

[Shinto7654]

If you miss a hypnosis (a move you’d basically only use to get an upper hand on checks) these are moves you’re likely to get hit by. These all put darkrai in danger of priority and speed control mons KOing it. Covering your ears and calling people stupid when they disagree with you is childish. Stop embarrassing yourself

Coming from the person that tried to argue that being almost forced to run a specific item to function well (Booster Energy with Valiant, HDB with Volcorona) is actually a positive and Darkrai being able to run multiple different items is a negative, trying to act like other people are being embarrassing is kinda funny. Like, do you actually think that either Valiant or Volcorona wouldn't love to just be able to run different items without suddenly being hamstrung?

 

[Return to Zero]

your scenario:

• bring darkrai in on something it scares out
• click nasty plot predicting switch
• opponent switches into zamazenta
• either you switch out and waste your boosts, you're forced to burn tera and take a chunk before killing, or zamazenta just turns your darkrai into paste

my scenario:

• bring darkrai in on something it scares out
• click hypnosis predicting switch
• opponent switches into zamazenta
• zamazenta falls asleep
• it's guaranteed to sleep for 1 turn, allowing you to set up a nasty plot as it either stays asleep or switches out
• you don't have to click tera until turn 2, allowing you to preserve it if zamazenta switches on the first turn
• if zama stays in, you tera and ohko with fairy tera blast; if it wakes up, you take a chunk from the fighting move but still live; if it doesn't, you kill it and remain at full health
• OR
• hypnosis misses
• blunder policy gives you +1 speed
• darkrai goes tera fairy and sets up a nasty plot as it tanks zama's fighting move
• next turn, darkrai outspeeds and kills with fairy tera blast
• darkrai now also outspeeds the booster valiant they had in the back

certainly this may not be the best set on it, but it sure works against a very common thing that darkrai's supposed to hard-lose to

Wait, both of these scenarios involve Darkrai having to use Tera. Why is it described as "forced to burn Tera" in the first one and just using it in the second? This seems like a lot of work to get to the same place as the first example, only now you're running Blunder Policy instead of anything else and you can't run Nasty Plot plus three attacks. What if Zamazenta only sleeps for one turn? How is outspeeding the Valiant in the back helpful when that's not the only possible answer to Darkrai? What do you do if the opponent switches to something other than Zamazenta? What if it's Unaware Clefable and you either struggle to make progress or you waste your Blunder Policy?

anyway! i'm glad we can all agree that darkrai is broken and should not drop. let's move on now

And how come people have to stop talking about this because you said so, right after you've spent this whole discussion being dismissive and talking down to people?

 

[DaddyBuzzwole]

This post is very cherrypicked and weirdly written, but it is kinda funny how both scenarios involve burning tera, but yours is a positive while mine is a negative.

oh

i genuinely didn't realize i did that

anyway, i'll be going ahead and removing myself from this entire conversation because i'm a fucking idiot

sorry for wasting everyone's time with this. i shouldn't have come back and ruined the thread again

 

[Bakugames]

sorry for wasting everyone's time with this

No one here wishes you ill will of the sorts, it's just that sometimes you come in to a discussion and you become weirdly dismissive of peoples posts or arguments, or kinda just reply with jokes and derail the convo. I understand having issues with reading tone or context because I am also autistic and I struggle with it, but you do this a Lot and it's hard to not get annoyed sometimes.
You're not a bad person nor do you need to stop posting but just don't jump into things so fast, and respect ppls view even if you think they're dumb. And sometimes u just gotta not post and let the convo go

 

[DaddyBuzzwole]

nor do you need to stop posting

i think i do, on this thread at least. now that the meta's effectively dead and there's no purpose for innovation, everything i say here is either a joke, something obvious, or an opinion everyone thinks is terrible. i'd stick to being funny because it's my forte and i know a lot of people like my jokes, but i've gotten my ass kicked so hard by moderation recently that i'm scared to be funny in this thread anymore. i'm going to stick to uubers for now, where i've actually been able to contribute to discussion, and maybe i'll come back and attempt to be productive in the dlc2 thread

 

[TPP]

I hate to do this, but I will kindly ask you all to quit discussing Hypnosis Darkrai. The only thing it's breaking is this thread unfortunately.

Anyways, to shift gears, I had a fun topic with roughly 8 days until DLC2. We don't know anything yet, but we do know that every starter is returning. It'll be the first time for all of them in a tera metagame, so maybe some of them might have surprising results, others might be fun in a lower tier. Have fun with it, and also keep in mind we don't know what moves they still have and what they lost. The only question I have for everyone is:



Which of the above starters are you excited to see the most and why? I'll post my thoughts first to start us off:

- Depends if it still has access to Weather Ball and Earth Power, but it could easily be a staple on Sun and a pretty good one with Chlorophyll + Growth + solid coverage and Tera to further increase its damage output.

- Shell Smash should make it fun at the minimum.

- Yeah I got nothing, but Bayleef is pretty cool

- So one cool thing to me is that in ORAS OU, Feraligatr is pretty similar with Mega Gyarados with DD + Waterfall + Crunch, but now we have a DD mon with Sheer Force + Life Orb AND Tera too. I'm feeling optimistic for this one. That being said, it probably needs 2 DD's to outspeed all the Booster Energy mons we have, but it'll be fun at least.

- Unburden physical sets get a little stronger with Tera, but it'll probably be underwhelming or pretty good in a lower tier

- I will fight till the death to keep this one in OU for at least 48 hours. I'll give up Chi-Yu if I have to. Jokes aside, Speed Boost mon with Tera sounds very promising, but Gen 8 OU proved that Blaziken will find ways to struggle, whether it's +2 not being strong enough, or having to deal with a ton of recoil from Flare Blitz + Rocky Helmet. At worse, Kingambit probably beats it in the usual painful way.

- I'm gonna predict it gets Spikes given Gastrodon and Quagsire got them too, but other than that, it'll probably be outclassed.

- Very interesting mon because Glare, Sub Seed, and Screen shenanigans are all very potent without tera, but offensively, it probably does want Tera Blast to get past Fire, Flying, and Steel types.

- Tera with Reckless is probably cool .... in randbats

- Doubles and VGC are gonna hate this one returning. Defensively it does seem cool with its stats + intimidate, but does want Knock Off very badly. Hopefully it gets it, if not, then we'll have to see what moves it kept.

- Finally another Water/Fairy type, and it should be a nice addition in general. It's a nice mix of solid defensive typing as well as its offensive stabs being very hard to switch into. Calm Mind sets were pretty nice early Gen 8, and now it has the option to Tera, not to mention that it benefits a lot from Toxapex getting nerfed to oblivion.

That's all I got for now, have a fun one and try to keep things peaceful for the last week before DLC2 drops. We're almost there and we can definitely make it there in one piece.