Metagame SV OU Metagame Discussion v3

[1LDK]

I think Primarina will struggle, especially with the prominence of Wellspring and Rillaboom right now, as well as the rise of Zapdos. It also doesn't like the rise of Amoonguss, which resists both of its stabs, can clear smog boosts, then put it to sleep.

these are all fair, but I'll try nonetheless, if it doesn't work out, ill just use it as fuel for my self-hatred for lack of skill and wait until someone better does, which is probably what's gonna happen

 

[658Greninja]

I think Primarina will struggle, especially with the prominence of Wellspring and Rillaboom right now, as well as the rise of Zapdos. It also doesn't like the rise of Amoonguss, which resists both of its stabs, can clear smog boosts, then put it to sleep.

I can agree with this. Outside of checking Zama, Wake, Hamu, and Heatran, I don’t think Prim will offer much in the wallbreaking department, nor do I think it will provide much defensive utility that other bulky waters can’t. It also has competition with other Moonblast nukers like Valiant and Enamorus. Considering how prediction reliant it’d be with Amoonguss, Glowking, and Wogre being as common as they are, I have a hard time picturing it to be viable, maybe a C- tier mon at the very best.

 

[UnusualBoy]

Yeah, I'm excited for Venusaur, Feraligatr and Primarina. I wonder if any of them can sneak in OU.

From other of the returning pokemon, I'm rooting for Reuniclus and Togekiss. I hope they both can have a niche in the tier or at least in UU.

And I wait I forgot about the Lati twins, excited to see how they do this gen, they were UUBL the last one.

 

[Eeveeto]

Regarding starters (released and unreleased):</p><p></p><p>Venusaur: God Mon in Sun. Lots of interesting Teras, like Fire.
Charizard: Hard to use, pretty much needs Torkoal, Tusk and Hatterene (though first 2 already are 100% needed in Sun), competes with Moltres (who has defensive utility), Fire Moth, Enamorus, etc.
Blastoise: Might have a niche with Shell Smash, Specs Tera Water Water Spout in Rain or even as a Tera Dark spinner with Dark Pulse.

Meganium: My favorite starter Mon in-game for Nuzlockes. Was actually THE BEST STARTER in GSC OU, but was literally abandoned after that. Nothing was given to it besides Aromatherapy (Dexited anyway), Overgrow (not so good on a mostly defensive Mon) and Dragon Tail (which is actually a fine move, but not enough to save Meganium from irrelevance). These are the only 3 relevant things that were given to Meganium after GSC. If Leaf Guard worked in Sun the same way as Hydration works in Rain, it could have been a fine Growth/SD + Rest sweeper, but even that hidden ability is the worst of the pack. Could have been very good with Regenerator, Natural Cure, even Triage! But no, Pokemon Company really hates this one starter. So, unless some big change happens, I don,t see future for the Grass Dino
Typhlosion: Only niche is a Sun abusser that is immune to opposing Fire Mons. Which is a fine niche, but hard to use.
Hisuian Typhlosion: This one is good due to secondary typing and Infernal Parade. Was relevant in my Wcop Final game despite me trying to throw that game several times.
Feraligatr: Tera gives this guy big potential. Enter Glowking with Chilly Reception and suddenly Tera Ice becomes a bulky DD Sweeper. Tera Dark with Crunch probably can get past Pex (not Dondozo though).

Sceptile: Has Unburden and now Tera Flying is an option. Can be a Special Attacker with several Teras too. Outclassed at everything it does, but not entirely unviable.
Blaziken: Tera breaks this guy, Ubers material.
Swampert: Rocks Pert was very bad last Gen, but there are fewer Defoggers now, so it might be good. Restalk and BandPert will be as viable as in SS, Flip Turn really helps this guy. Not very Tera dependant, which is good.

Torterra: Shell Smash goes, brrr.
Infernape: Somehow the worst Sinnoh starter but can still do some stuff with Tera. Very unexplored Mon.
Empoleon: God Mon with Roost. Not Tera dependant, just like Swampert.

Serperior: Opposite case here, totally needs Tera Blast to not be walled and even then, something always walls it. Very good Mon anyway due to high Speed, pasable bulk and Glare + Synthesis. Hidden Power removal made it worse, but Tera changing typing compensates that.
Emboar: Enormous damage with Tera, but very slow and not bulky to do it consistently. Can get past Dondozo, but needs TR or paralisis support to work.
Samurott: Competes with Meganium and Inteleon for the worst starter position.
Hisuian Samurott: Yeah, everyone knows what this guy does, its already a Top Tier Mon and I don,t see it falling.

Chesnaught: Another good Mon, the addition of Knock Off helped it a lot.
Delphox: Decent Mon, Magician does some cool tricks, versatile Tera abusser with a nice Speed.
Greninja: Another good and versatile Mon, already doing well in OU despite needing skill to be used efficiently.

Decidueye: Hard to use, there are better Mons with the same typing. However, has a trapping Move, which is always gimmick potential.
Hisuian Decidueye: Ended up being totally outclassed by every other Grass-Fight Mon. That Speed is simply too low and Gholdengo can Tera to avoid Triple Arrows and still block Defog.
Incineroar: Restalk + Intimidate + Knock Off potential. Has decent bulk and some useful moves, like Parting Shot. Can be a SD + Flame Charge + Power Trip sweeper due to Tera chaging match-ups. Hard to use, but not useless.
Primarina:

Ashirene (Primarina) (F) @ Rocky Helmet
Ability: Torrent
EVs: 248 HP / 248 Def / 12 SpD
Relaxed Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Rest
- Sleep Talk
- Flip Turn
- Moonblast


This girl saved my ass several times in SS OU and is common in my teams there. Checks half of the meta with the powerful typing and provides slow Flip Turn. However, Waterpon will make her life more difficult, so Specs might be better this time.

Rillaboom: Nothing to say here, already good.
Cinderace: The Mon we need to not let Gholdengo dominate the Meta.
Inteleon: Almost fully outclassed by Greninja. Needs like 6 Moves and spend Tera to be viable.

Meowscarada: Best Knock Off waifumon alongisde Weavile.
Skeledirge: Favorite Gen 9 starter, a non passive Unaware user. So good to have.
Quaquaval: Ugly duck, but pretty good at sweeping too.

 

[Just A Shroom God]

Without recovery, blissey becomes a dead blob that does nothing. It won’t beat it. Also, some of your chosen calls are super questionable

252 SpA Latios Psycho Cut vs. 4 HP / 252+ SpD Blissey: 67-81 (10.2 - 12.4%) -- possible 9HKO
Blissey Seismic Toss vs. 0 HP Latios: 100-100 (33.2 - 33.2%) -- guaranteed 4HKO
Blissey often uses Seismic Toss to beat the PN pokemon much faster than they will beat you. They also sometimes run ice beam/shadow, which when facing a 9HKO have a pretty decent chance to hax you.

Why are you calling psychic stab vs these threats when it just clicks dragon stab? Also psychic noise shutting off Ogerpon horn leech would still have value especially as it notoriously gets worn down by hazards so…

I talked about how these calcs aren't really relevant with Latios specifically. However, I think you said it yourself: you'd rather be clicking Dragon STAB. In cases versus offense, you'd rather be using stronger moves over psychic noise. And I think that's my main point here. You give up a lot of potential being able to 2HKO offense for something that is, yes, a middling effect.

Bulky offense and balance exist as viable styles too you know.

And they have far less fear switching in their Wogerpon, Pult, or Ace because you won't 2HKO with your STAB, not to mention how many amazing dark types that give 0 shits.

did you just use psycho cut on latios

I'm using special psycho cut as a substitute for psychic noise, as evidenced by the display of the blissey's SpDef rather than Defense.

 

[cosmogii]

252 SpA Latios Psycho Cut vs. 4 HP / 252+ SpD Blissey: 67-81 (10.2 - 12.4%) -- possible 9HKO
Blissey Seismic Toss vs. 0 HP Latios: 100-100 (33.2 - 33.2%) -- guaranteed 4HKO
Blissey often uses Seismic Toss to beat the PN pokemon much faster than they will beat you. They also sometimes run ice beam/shadow, which when facing a 9HKO have a pretty decent chance to hax you.

did you just use psycho cut on latios

 

[Carl_the_turtle]

Is it confirmed that Psychic Noise just inflicts heal block on the opposing pokemon? If so, I think it won't change much other than glowking usage going up on bulky structures because that move ignores regen and almost no one was running slack off.

 

[Wolf-X]

I saw some people have concers about Blaziken and tera...

I really doubt it will be giving us any trouble with mons like Skeledirge and Dondozo around.

Tera can help its survability and coverage, but not sure it will be enough to break it.

Hazards, recoil, tons of priority and the huge amount of speed in the tier Dragapult, Zamazenta(together with those mentioned, make it a lot harder for blaziken to sweep). At +1 it isnt that scary and in the end is kind of frail mon with self dmg.

OU material, but far from ban worthy. Seems like a more aggressive Quaquaval to me thanks to the speed boost.

 

[pika pal]

I hate to do this, but I will kindly ask you all to quit discussing Hypnosis Darkrai. The only thing it's breaking is this thread unfortunately.

Anyways, to shift gears, I had a fun topic with roughly 8 days until DLC2. We don't know anything yet, but we do know that every starter is returning. It'll be the first time for all of them in a tera metagame, so maybe some of them might have surprising results, others might be fun in a lower tier. Have fun with it, and also keep in mind we don't know what moves they still have and what they lost. The only question I have for everyone is:



Which of the above starters are you excited to see the most and why? I'll post my thoughts first to start us off:

- Depends if it still has access to Weather Ball and Earth Power, but it could easily be a staple on Sun and a pretty good one with Chlorophyll + Growth + solid coverage and Tera to further increase its damage output.

- Shell Smash should make it fun at the minimum.

- Yeah I got nothing, but Bayleef is pretty cool

- So one cool thing to me is that in ORAS OU, Feraligatr is pretty similar with Mega Gyarados with DD + Waterfall + Crunch, but now we have a DD mon with Sheer Force + Life Orb AND Tera too. I'm feeling optimistic for this one. That being said, it probably needs 2 DD's to outspeed all the Booster Energy mons we have, but it'll be fun at least.

- Unburden physical sets get a little stronger with Tera, but it'll probably be underwhelming or pretty good in a lower tier

- I will fight till the death to keep this one in OU for at least 48 hours. I'll give up Chi-Yu if I have to. Jokes aside, Speed Boost mon with Tera sounds very promising, but Gen 8 OU proved that Blaziken will find ways to struggle, whether it's +2 not being strong enough, or having to deal with a ton of recoil from Flare Blitz + Rocky Helmet. At worse, Kingambit probably beats it in the usual painful way.

- I'm gonna predict it gets Spikes given Gastrodon and Quagsire got them too, but other than that, it'll probably be outclassed.

- Very interesting mon because Glare, Sub Seed, and Screen shenanigans are all very potent without tera, but offensively, it probably does want Tera Blast to get past Fire, Flying, and Steel types.

- Tera with Reckless is probably cool .... in randbats

- Doubles and VGC are gonna hate this one returning. Defensively it does seem cool with its stats + intimidate, but does want Knock Off very badly. Hopefully it gets it, if not, then we'll have to see what moves it kept.

- Finally another Water/Fairy type, and it should be a nice addition in general. It's a nice mix of solid defensive typing as well as its offensive stabs being very hard to switch into. Calm Mind sets were pretty nice early Gen 8, and now it has the option to Tera, not to mention that it benefits a lot from Toxapex getting nerfed to oblivion.

That's all I got for now, have a fun one and try to keep things peaceful for the last week before DLC2 drops. We're almost there and we can definitely make it there in one piece.

I think in the case of Serperior, Subseed is going to be its ticket into OU usage. What I'm curious about is if it even will use Tera Blast much. My logic here being that OU has a couple Grass types pending the DLC (Ogerpons, Rillaboom, Amoonguss, Sinistcha, Meowscarada in various amounts), but most of the Teras Serperior could use to get over them (as Leech Seed blockers) offensively don't help it a great deal defensively if even needed

• Meowscarada outspeeds and does a number with STAB or just Protean U-Turn pivoting
• SE types for Amoonguss introduce a Rocks weakness with questionable utility into other Walls/Tanks like Glowking
• Standard Sinistcha ends up in a weird game of chicken since Serperior outpaces it hard on Boosting vs CM and won't offer real Strength Sap/Matcha Gotcha recovery
• Rillaboom and the Ogerpons simply don't require Serp to use Leech Seed anyway. If they switch into Leaf Storm it'll be at +2 with some chip to follow-up, while Sub gives it a window to Boost and Glare presents other hinderances, making Leech Seed the only true safe move to come into
  • +2 252 SpA Serperior Leaf Storm vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Ogerpon-Wellspring: 303-357 (100.6 - 118.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO
  • 252 Atk Wellspring Mask Ogerpon-Wellspring U-turn vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Serperior: 180-214 (61.8 - 73.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
  • +2 252 SpA Serperior Leaf Storm vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Rillaboom in Grassy Terrain: 255-301 (74.7 - 88.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Grassy Terrain recovery/ 6.3% chance to OHKO after 1 layer of Spikes
  • 252+ Atk Choice Band Rillaboom Grassy Glide vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Serperior in Grassy Terrain: 98-116 (33.6 - 39.8%) -- 99.8% chance to 4HKO after Leftovers recovery and Grassy Terrain recovery

The above to say I think Serperior might fare better focus on Tera to survive defensively/snag an extra Leaf Storm Boost since Leech Seed and Sub give it ways to make Progress/Repair itself on anything besides the above Grass types, letting you play it for Glare, Chip, and some defensive utility before cleaning up late game with the above dealt with via team support. Like Kingambit if he wasn't completely unhinged in execution. Not to say Offensive sets are without their place but I think the SubSeed sets should just go all in on that front.

This all pending if it actually gains anything new, since the Unova Starters completely skipped Gen 8 and pre-DLC Gen 9, with only Samurott giving us a preview due to its Hisuian Counterpart, so we don't even know what moves they'd "keep" from the existing Tutors/TMs after transfer wipes.

 

[apoteosis]

I hate to do this, but I will kindly ask you all to quit discussing Hypnosis Darkrai. The only thing it's breaking is this thread unfortunately.

Anyways, to shift gears, I had a fun topic with roughly 8 days until DLC2. We don't know anything yet, but we do know that every starter is returning. It'll be the first time for all of them in a tera metagame, so maybe some of them might have surprising results, others might be fun in a lower tier. Have fun with it, and also keep in mind we don't know what moves they still have and what they lost. The only question I have for everyone is:



Which of the above starters are you excited to see the most and why? I'll post my thoughts first to start us off:

- Depends if it still has access to Weather Ball and Earth Power, but it could easily be a staple on Sun and a pretty good one with Chlorophyll + Growth + solid coverage and Tera to further increase its damage output.

- Shell Smash should make it fun at the minimum.

- Yeah I got nothing, but Bayleef is pretty cool

- So one cool thing to me is that in ORAS OU, Feraligatr is pretty similar with Mega Gyarados with DD + Waterfall + Crunch, but now we have a DD mon with Sheer Force + Life Orb AND Tera too. I'm feeling optimistic for this one. That being said, it probably needs 2 DD's to outspeed all the Booster Energy mons we have, but it'll be fun at least.

- Unburden physical sets get a little stronger with Tera, but it'll probably be underwhelming or pretty good in a lower tier

- I will fight till the death to keep this one in OU for at least 48 hours. I'll give up Chi-Yu if I have to. Jokes aside, Speed Boost mon with Tera sounds very promising, but Gen 8 OU proved that Blaziken will find ways to struggle, whether it's +2 not being strong enough, or having to deal with a ton of recoil from Flare Blitz + Rocky Helmet. At worse, Kingambit probably beats it in the usual painful way.

- I'm gonna predict it gets Spikes given Gastrodon and Quagsire got them too, but other than that, it'll probably be outclassed.

- Very interesting mon because Glare, Sub Seed, and Screen shenanigans are all very potent without tera, but offensively, it probably does want Tera Blast to get past Fire, Flying, and Steel types.

- Tera with Reckless is probably cool .... in randbats

- Doubles and VGC are gonna hate this one returning. Defensively it does seem cool with its stats + intimidate, but does want Knock Off very badly. Hopefully it gets it, if not, then we'll have to see what moves it kept.

- Finally another Water/Fairy type, and it should be a nice addition in general. It's a nice mix of solid defensive typing as well as its offensive stabs being very hard to switch into. Calm Mind sets were pretty nice early Gen 8, and now it has the option to Tera, not to mention that it benefits a lot from Toxapex getting nerfed to oblivion.

That's all I got for now, have a fun one and try to keep things peaceful for the last week before DLC2 drops. We're almost there and we can definitely make it there in one piece.

AT LAST THE TRUE GOD OF POKEMON IS HERE!!!!!!!11
Shell smash and tera will help it but not much, its coverage sux. If you want a shell smash abuser, go or
Straight to PU (i'm being generous here)
Sheer force + DD is super cool; sadly it is outclassed by waterpon, which is a testament about how stupid waterpon is.
Another garbage grass starter. Maybe GF was balancing since is TOO DAMN SEXY
Lol this thing kills itself. Straight to UU
Look how they mistreated my boy. I hope it gets spikes tho.
Finally, another good grass starter. This thing will rock with all the webs spam around here rn.
This mon is one of the many reasons why nobody likes 5th gen.
Nobody here plays doubles; go to your home dude (PU)
Gen 7 starters are the worst ones ('cept for Emboar, ugliest mon ever), and Primarina is not the exception. All of them will end up in RU. Btw, if you want a slow, bulky and powerful Fairy mon you have

 

[Funkytown]

If Incineroar becomes popular in OU, I wonder if people will begin to run Defiant/Competitive pokemon more often to counter the Intimidate/Parting Shot shenanigans.

Milotic and Empoleon are the only really viable Competitive users, but this would help them a lot given that they both have good defensive utility, and this would make them more threatening. Offensive Defiant mons like Grass Ogerpon and even Galarian Zapdos would love a free +1 on switch in.

More likely this is a UU interaction, but I could see it happening here.

 

[SDK03]

I hate to do this, but I will kindly ask you all to quit discussing Hypnosis Darkrai. The only thing it's breaking is this thread unfortunately.

Anyways, to shift gears, I had a fun topic with roughly 8 days until DLC2. We don't know anything yet, but we do know that every starter is returning. It'll be the first time for all of them in a tera metagame, so maybe some of them might have surprising results, others might be fun in a lower tier. Have fun with it, and also keep in mind we don't know what moves they still have and what they lost. The only question I have for everyone is:



Which of the above starters are you excited to see the most and why? I'll post my thoughts first to start us off:

- Depends if it still has access to Weather Ball and Earth Power, but it could easily be a staple on Sun and a pretty good one with Chlorophyll + Growth + solid coverage and Tera to further increase its damage output.

- Shell Smash should make it fun at the minimum.

- Yeah I got nothing, but Bayleef is pretty cool

- So one cool thing to me is that in ORAS OU, Feraligatr is pretty similar with Mega Gyarados with DD + Waterfall + Crunch, but now we have a DD mon with Sheer Force + Life Orb AND Tera too. I'm feeling optimistic for this one. That being said, it probably needs 2 DD's to outspeed all the Booster Energy mons we have, but it'll be fun at least.

- Unburden physical sets get a little stronger with Tera, but it'll probably be underwhelming or pretty good in a lower tier

- I will fight till the death to keep this one in OU for at least 48 hours. I'll give up Chi-Yu if I have to. Jokes aside, Speed Boost mon with Tera sounds very promising, but Gen 8 OU proved that Blaziken will find ways to struggle, whether it's +2 not being strong enough, or having to deal with a ton of recoil from Flare Blitz + Rocky Helmet. At worse, Kingambit probably beats it in the usual painful way.

- I'm gonna predict it gets Spikes given Gastrodon and Quagsire got them too, but other than that, it'll probably be outclassed.

- Very interesting mon because Glare, Sub Seed, and Screen shenanigans are all very potent without tera, but offensively, it probably does want Tera Blast to get past Fire, Flying, and Steel types.

- Tera with Reckless is probably cool .... in randbats

- Doubles and VGC are gonna hate this one returning. Defensively it does seem cool with its stats + intimidate, but does want Knock Off very badly. Hopefully it gets it, if not, then we'll have to see what moves it kept.

- Finally another Water/Fairy type, and it should be a nice addition in general. It's a nice mix of solid defensive typing as well as its offensive stabs being very hard to switch into. Calm Mind sets were pretty nice early Gen 8, and now it has the option to Tera, not to mention that it benefits a lot from Toxapex getting nerfed to oblivion.

That's all I got for now, have a fun one and try to keep things peaceful for the last week before DLC2 drops. We're almost there and we can definitely make it there in one piece.

Ohh, we talking starters now? Fun!

- Potent sun sweeper, we already know what it does. Tera Fire + Weather Ball sounds pretty nutty

- Probably gonna be good in VGC like in last gen, but if it keeps Water Spout it’s gonna be a fun pick on Rain teams in Singles (you know, TR Eruption Torkoal kind of thing).

- Game Freak just please replace Leaf Guard with Flower Veil at the very least. Since they seem so proactive on buffing the old starters this time around (Empoleon being given the correct Hidden Ability in Competitive to replace Defiant and the movepool buffs the Gen 4 starters received) it seems like a possibility, but they just seem to dislike Gen 2 too much (although the evolutions to a lot of the Gen 2 mons are nice, I guess).

- Yeah this one’s gonna be fun asf. Sheer Force and a colourful movepool is always a great combo.

- I could actually see it being broken again mainly thanks to Tera 19. Whether Tera 19 ends up being a neutral typing or omni-type, it’s still gonna be practically unwallable and Blaziken is gonna abuse the shit out of Tera 19 Tera Blast.

- It’s probably gonna get Spikes this gen which could end up giving it a nice niche in OU. Better hope Game Freak doesn’t decide to replace Damp with a good defensive ability though if you were one of those people who hated Gliscor.

- This thing needs some of its BST redistributed into Attack before we think of giving it a new Ability, cause 85 Attack Sharpness isn’t gonna do it.

- Should have been Fire/Dark so it could spam STAB Sucker Punch to make up for the terrible Speed, but I guess you can kind of do that with Tera now. Will probably be neat in lower tiers with Flare Blitz spam.

- Like I said with Blaziken, Tera 19 could end up breaking this thing by pairing Leaf Storm with an additional spammable, neutral unwallable STAB move. Hell, even if Tera 19 is an omnitype (which would apparently only be resisted by Rock if that were true), Leaf Storm ironically covers for that one thing that resists a theoretical omnitype. Yeah, forget what I said about the omnitype since I got that wrong, apparently a Flying-Press style omnitype would actually be pretty ass and way too elaborate for Game Freak to want to code in. So I guess we’re getting a true neutral type that essentially gives Serperior/Blaziken/Haxorus/Porygon-Z free spammable unwallable STAB then.
- Don’t like this thing and neither does VGC. No need to say anything more about this thing.

- Water/Fairy is a good typing and it could see niche use in OU, but I’d see this comfortably in RUBL or UU.

 

[FayaWizard]

If Incineroar becomes popular in OU, I wonder if people will begin to run Defiant/Competitive pokemon more often to counter the Intimidate/Parting Shot shenanigans.

Milotic and Empoleon are the only really viable Competitive users, but this would help them a lot given that they both have good defensive utility, and this would make them more threatening. Offensive Defiant mons like Grass Ogerpon and even Galarian Zapdos would love a free +1 on switch in.

More likely this is a UU interaction, but I could see it happening here.

Incineroar isn't getting anywhere in OU: It's eaten alive by Val and Tusk, poor matchup into Waterpon, Ting Lu, and Zama, and if you want an Intimidate user use Lando t

 

[pika pal]

- Like I said with Blaziken, Tera 19 could end up breaking this thing by pairing Leaf Storm with an additional spammable, neutral unwallable STAB move. Hell, even if Tera 19 is an omnitype (which would apparently only be resisted by Rock if that were true), Leaf Storm ironically covers for that one thing that resists a theoretical omnitype.

Have that backwards. The infamous interaction is that if a Pokemon was every type at once, it would be weak to Rock Attacks (which was funny because SR at the time). An Omnitype Attack would be Resisted (or immuned depending on interaction) by 12 types, neutral to 2, 2x weak on 3, and 8x effective on 1 (no points for guessing which).

So if it's a so-called Omnitype, it would actually be a really bad gimmick if it was like 18 Flying Press styled types in one move (which Gamefreak could be silly enough to do) but is more likely just a true-neutral on Tera Blast to keep it easy for kids to understand.

 

[VTMagno]

Prediction time woo ordered them from best to worst imo btw

- This is gonna follow the same path it did on gen 8 with people using some weird Life Orb set that kills itself in 2 turns and when those don't work out it's gonna get super hated on and drop. SD + Protect with balloon will be the best set but yall aint ready for this conversation yet.

- fuckthismonfuckthismonfuckthismon
Ppl keep underrating it but this mon will be a demon. Doesn't have too much immediate offensive presence but that doesn't last long after even one Leaf Storm, Glare is most annoying move in this game straight up, SubSeed sets sound stupid esp now that it doesn't need to use tera blast fire for ferro and can use something like water, Ive got no doubt it gets Knock Off too bc gamefreak hates me. Doubt it ends up becoming top tier but still good enough to stay ou.

- Yet another buff to sun, probably going to make the playstyle quite better.

- It's gonna get spikes and flip turn and scald and still somehow find a way to be C+ at best on the vr.

- Wisp is a broken progress making tool this gen and so is knock so I can see it being ok? It's also like the best gambit answer ever. Mandating boots and having no recovery kinda sucks, tho.

- If the other bulky special attacking water fairy type with access to calm mind released in gen 7 doesn't also become avaiable in this dlc, then yeah I can see it pulling off decent results with like a sub CM set.

- mid lmao

- Its HA will be replaced with Triage trust (this information was revealed to me in a dream) (it will still be pu at best)

 

[DaddyBuzzwole]

Have that backwards. The infamous interaction is that if a Pokemon was every type at once, it would be weak to Rock Attacks (which was funny because SR at the time). An Omnitype Attack would be Resisted (or immuned depending on interaction) by 12 types, neutral to 2, 2x weak on 3, and 8x effective on 1 (no points for guessing which).

So if it's a so-called Omnitype, it would actually be a really bad gimmick if it was like 18 Flying Press styled types in one move (which Gamefreak could be silly enough to do) but is more likely just a true-neutral on Tera Blast to keep it easy for kids to understand.

and it's already effectively confirmed to not be "the type effectiveness of every type at once" because official footage shows type 19 tera blast as being neutral to dragonite. if it were a flying-press-style omnitype, dragonite would either be immune because the move is part ground and dragonite is flying-type, or (if immunities aren't factored in) resistant, because dragonite has more resistances than weaknesses

 

[viivian]

I hate to do this, but I will kindly ask you all to quit discussing Hypnosis Darkrai. The only thing it's breaking is this thread unfortunately.

Anyways, to shift gears, I had a fun topic with roughly 8 days until DLC2. We don't know anything yet, but we do know that every starter is returning. It'll be the first time for all of them in a tera metagame, so maybe some of them might have surprising results, others might be fun in a lower tier. Have fun with it, and also keep in mind we don't know what moves they still have and what they lost. The only question I have for everyone is:



Which of the above starters are you excited to see the most and why? I'll post my thoughts first to start us off:

- Depends if it still has access to Weather Ball and Earth Power, but it could easily be a staple on Sun and a pretty good one with Chlorophyll + Growth + solid coverage and Tera to further increase its damage output.

- Shell Smash should make it fun at the minimum.

- Yeah I got nothing, but Bayleef is pretty cool

- So one cool thing to me is that in ORAS OU, Feraligatr is pretty similar with Mega Gyarados with DD + Waterfall + Crunch, but now we have a DD mon with Sheer Force + Life Orb AND Tera too. I'm feeling optimistic for this one. That being said, it probably needs 2 DD's to outspeed all the Booster Energy mons we have, but it'll be fun at least.

- Unburden physical sets get a little stronger with Tera, but it'll probably be underwhelming or pretty good in a lower tier

- I will fight till the death to keep this one in OU for at least 48 hours. I'll give up Chi-Yu if I have to. Jokes aside, Speed Boost mon with Tera sounds very promising, but Gen 8 OU proved that Blaziken will find ways to struggle, whether it's +2 not being strong enough, or having to deal with a ton of recoil from Flare Blitz + Rocky Helmet. At worse, Kingambit probably beats it in the usual painful way.

- I'm gonna predict it gets Spikes given Gastrodon and Quagsire got them too, but other than that, it'll probably be outclassed.

- Very interesting mon because Glare, Sub Seed, and Screen shenanigans are all very potent without tera, but offensively, it probably does want Tera Blast to get past Fire, Flying, and Steel types.

- Tera with Reckless is probably cool .... in randbats

- Doubles and VGC are gonna hate this one returning. Defensively it does seem cool with its stats + intimidate, but does want Knock Off very badly. Hopefully it gets it, if not, then we'll have to see what moves it kept.

- Finally another Water/Fairy type, and it should be a nice addition in general. It's a nice mix of solid defensive typing as well as its offensive stabs being very hard to switch into. Calm Mind sets were pretty nice early Gen 8, and now it has the option to Tera, not to mention that it benefits a lot from Toxapex getting nerfed to oblivion.

That's all I got for now, have a fun one and try to keep things peaceful for the last week before DLC2 drops. We're almost there and we can definitely make it there in one piece.

is of course going to be an OU staple and will absolutely love the ability to terastallize. i could legitimately see it getting banned in a similar vein to and , since while it cant beat all its checks at the same time, the versatility and unpredictability of its tera type can give it an extremely lop-sided MU against certain teams should it be packing the right tera for them

i also feel like everything said about could also apply to , especially given how much of a wrecking ball it was pre-SWSH. also (doesnt) help that its most reliable checks/counters in SWSH have all been nerfed to complete shit going into SV. its likely not going to be as matchup-fishy as but its defensive counterplay is substantially more limited in general. besides and i do not see much that can stop this thing once it gets going

as always, will be a welcome addition to sun teams, especially given its great MU into pokemon such as and , both of which can pose a major threat to sun. the 4MSS still hurts it but with falling off and getting dexited with (presumably) no hope of returning, itll at least no longer be required to run weather ball

and like you said, if gets spikes i can see it having a very solid niche in OU. without them itd be much harder to fit on teams, especially over other ground types like and

could be interesting but ive never used it and have never seen it in any generation of OU so i dont have too much to say about this one. i dont think it should be counted out though, since it did have a niche during SM/SWSH if i recall properly

will be broken in VGC as always, i think it will be interesting to see how it competes w/ but in OU it likely wont make too much of an impact. its a neat check to and but its lack of recovery, susceptibility to knock off and poor MUs into the vast majority of the meta (, , , , , , , , etc etc.) will forever burden its viability in singles

and the rest i just dont see making any significant impact in singles or doubles. RIP

 

[SDK03]

Have that backwards. The infamous interaction is that if a Pokemon was every type at once, it would be weak to Rock Attacks (which was funny because SR at the time). An Omnitype Attack would be Resisted (or immuned depending on interaction) by 12 types, neutral to 2, 2x weak on 3, and 8x effective on 1 (no points for guessing which).

So if it's a so-called Omnitype, it would actually be a really bad gimmick if it was like 18 Flying Press styled types in one move (which Gamefreak could be silly enough to do) but is more likely just a true-neutral on Tera Blast to keep it easy for kids to understand.

Ohh, that’s how an omnitype would work? That makes more sense. Assuming that Game Freak goes for the easier option of a true-neutral typing, then Tera 19 Tera Blast is gonna break Serperior/Blaziken/Haxorus/Porygon-Z and some other shit.

 

[Real Pikachu]

could be interesting but ive never used it and have never seen it in any generation of OU so i dont have too much to say about this one. i dont think it should be counted out though, since it did have a niche during SM/SWSH if i recall properly

Yeah it was pretty dece in SWSH OU because it was fat and could 1v1 the other fat things like Conk. With how overcentralized OU is with Ground type I could see it fit onto Fat Balance or BO. Also it learns Whirlpool for stall which is funny.

 

[Return to Zero]

I'm not convinced Blaziken is going to suddenly run roughshod over the meta and be Ubers material once it drops. Trash 80/70/70 defenses, mediocre defensive typing, hazard vulnerability in a meta where hazards are omnipresent, 80 base Speed. Dragapult outspeeds and OHKOs after one Speed Boost turn unless Blaziken is Jolly. Giving it one really good move like Raging Fury isn't gonna be the game changer that it was for stuff like Torterra since its problems are a little different.

 

[658Greninja]

Incineroar isn't getting anywhere in OU: It's eaten alive by Val and Tusk, poor matchup into Waterpon, Ting Lu, and Zama, and if you want an Intimidate user use Lando t

You never know.

Considering they all don’t like switching into Wisp and 2 of them don’t like losing their items to Knock, I think its pretty good for Incin.

The overall environment/meta is more inviting to Incineroar than previous gens.

Right off the bat, it resists both STAB combinations of Gholden Daddy and FairBalancedGambit which are two of the biggest threats in the meta, so unless they bring coverage specifically for Incineroar (and also Gambit lol), the heel cat is gonna check them nicely. It also has some solid matchups into Glowking, Hex Pult, and Dirge which are annoying for bulkier builds.

Plus the utility of Knock + Wisp + Pivot Move + Ghost Resist is incredibly good. Its also backed up by partners like Mola/Clef/Rilla who can aid in its survivability.

I think this feline has a chance, moreso than 90% of the returning mons.

 

[Moyashi]

I'm not convinced Blaziken is going to suddenly run roughshod over the meta and be Ubers material once it drops. Trash 80/70/70 defenses, mediocre defensive typing, hazard vulnerability in a meta where hazards are omnipresent, 80 base Speed. Dragapult outspeeds and OHKOs after one Speed Boost turn unless Blaziken is Jolly. Giving it one really good move like Raging Fury isn't gonna be the game changer that it was for stuff like Torterra since its problems are a little different.

I've seen this and similar sentiments around Blaziken in this thread for some reason and I just don't get it. This isn't gen8. Slowbro and Toxapex are nowhere to be seen in relevant play, Go through the list of S through B+ mons and you'll find that defensive checks are basically Skele and Dozo, and Dragonite. Great Tusk isn't gonna be reliable in a tera meta since Blaziken can tech for it now, which also lets it slam Dragonite. And speaking of Dragonite, unless you tera normal instantly or already terad, +2 Blaziken can slam it through multiscale with ice tera.

Regarding hazards, this is a mon primarily seen on aggressive offensive teams, sepecially HO, which doesn't see it switch around much if at all. I don't see this being an issue. Priority picking it off? Probably after chip. But...

252+ Atk Dragonite Extreme Speed vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Tera Fairy Blaziken: 131-155 (43.5 - 51.4%) -- 8.2% chance to 2HKO
+2 252 Atk Tera Fairy Blaziken Close Combat vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Multiscale Tera Normal Dragonite: 385-454 (119.1 - 140.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO

+2 252 Atk Tera Fairy Blaziken Close Combat vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Multiscale Tera Normal Dragonite: 385-454 (119.1 - 140.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO

Now i'm not sure if it'll be broken day one, if at all, but downplaying this mon like has been happening is seriously crazy.

 

[MegaScizor32]

I'm not convinced Blaziken is going to suddenly run roughshod over the meta and be Ubers material once it drops. Trash 80/70/70 defenses, mediocre defensive typing, hazard vulnerability in a meta where hazards are omnipresent, 80 base Speed. Dragapult outspeeds and OHKOs after one Speed Boost turn unless Blaziken is Jolly. Giving it one really good move like Raging Fury isn't gonna be the game changer that it was for stuff like Torterra since its problems are a little different.

I dont think many people are saying its gonna be an uber tier world beater. But with tera it has potential to blow holes in teams and be a great wall breaker depending on the moves it gets. It can also be an end game sweeper if you chip the rest of the team and play well.

If it gets Knock Off again, it can remove valuable items on its counters like Dondozo and Skeledirge. This makes making progress much more easier especially if you are able to get hazards up. Using the rest of your team to chip them down until you start breaking the opponents team.

It doesn’t always have to sweep but just the potential of being able to, makes its very dangerous. Tera Fly Acrobatics for Tusk, Tera Electric Thunder Punch for Toxapex and Dondozo, Jolly Tera Dark Knock Off for Pult and Dirge. There are many other possibilities that I haven’t even mentioned. I think its suited for todays offensive focused metagame with speed boost and natural good typing.

Although its utility will be heavily dependent on its movepool. (Use Blaze Kick and Low Kick if you dont wanna hurt yourself)

 

[arnimacarni]

- haha chlorophyll goes brrr

- NUBL

- i was once playing in the Radical Red showdown server and a guy got so pissed bc I brought Triage Grass/Fairy Meganium with Counter and I bonked his Kartana to oblivion best day of my life. if it got Triage fr maybe it could go up to RUBL

- haha Sheer Force Life Orb goes brrr

- Unburden def sounds promising but I feel like it's going to be VERY underwhelming. I can see it hanging in PU with Pincurchin and Electric Seed and maybe Iron Leaves has dropped to PU by then to have so nice E-Terrain team

- dangerous, but far from a problem. I think that if people know what it does they will be able to stop it. OU for sure tho

- give my man a good HA ffs, solid but fat from relevant

- now hear me out, this guy is here to send Ribombee back to the shadow realm and I don't care how good it actually is, I'm gonna spam it day one non-stop

- bacon

- wolfey be cryin

- again i see the value of something like this but I just feel it's so middle of the pack that it won't be able to do anything properly. besides if Fini comes back this gal has no place in OU

in other news:

Hide

seems like we're about to have our first Bug/Dragon type?! how are we feeling on Hydrapplin?

 

[fart goblin]

I hate to do this, but I will kindly ask you all to quit discussing Hypnosis Darkrai. The only thing it's breaking is this thread unfortunately.

Anyways, to shift gears, I had a fun topic with roughly 8 days until DLC2. We don't know anything yet, but we do know that every starter is returning. It'll be the first time for all of them in a tera metagame, so maybe some of them might have surprising results, others might be fun in a lower tier. Have fun with it, and also keep in mind we don't know what moves they still have and what they lost. The only question I have for everyone is:



Which of the above starters are you excited to see the most and why? I'll post my thoughts first to start us off:

- Depends if it still has access to Weather Ball and Earth Power, but it could easily be a staple on Sun and a pretty good one with Chlorophyll + Growth + solid coverage and Tera to further increase its damage output.

- Shell Smash should make it fun at the minimum.

- Yeah I got nothing, but Bayleef is pretty cool

- So one cool thing to me is that in ORAS OU, Feraligatr is pretty similar with Mega Gyarados with DD + Waterfall + Crunch, but now we have a DD mon with Sheer Force + Life Orb AND Tera too. I'm feeling optimistic for this one. That being said, it probably needs 2 DD's to outspeed all the Booster Energy mons we have, but it'll be fun at least.

- Unburden physical sets get a little stronger with Tera, but it'll probably be underwhelming or pretty good in a lower tier

- I will fight till the death to keep this one in OU for at least 48 hours. I'll give up Chi-Yu if I have to. Jokes aside, Speed Boost mon with Tera sounds very promising, but Gen 8 OU proved that Blaziken will find ways to struggle, whether it's +2 not being strong enough, or having to deal with a ton of recoil from Flare Blitz + Rocky Helmet. At worse, Kingambit probably beats it in the usual painful way.

- I'm gonna predict it gets Spikes given Gastrodon and Quagsire got them too, but other than that, it'll probably be outclassed.

- Very interesting mon because Glare, Sub Seed, and Screen shenanigans are all very potent without tera, but offensively, it probably does want Tera Blast to get past Fire, Flying, and Steel types.

- Tera with Reckless is probably cool .... in randbats

- Doubles and VGC are gonna hate this one returning. Defensively it does seem cool with its stats + intimidate, but does want Knock Off very badly. Hopefully it gets it, if not, then we'll have to see what moves it kept.

- Finally another Water/Fairy type, and it should be a nice addition in general. It's a nice mix of solid defensive typing as well as its offensive stabs being very hard to switch into. Calm Mind sets were pretty nice early Gen 8, and now it has the option to Tera, not to mention that it benefits a lot from Toxapex getting nerfed to oblivion.

That's all I got for now, have a fun one and try to keep things peaceful for the last week before DLC2 drops. We're almost there and we can definitely make it there in one piece.

oh thank god i dont have to use victreebell anymore
I could see this getting used on some fringe rain teams but other than that it's outclassed by other shell smashers
lol
pretty great! (in ru)
really mediocre unless it gets any new moves? probably not though, publ for you boy
hahahaha no
hmm. could be okay as a spike setter that can pivot? still pretty outclassed though, but worth exploring nonetheless (not biased at all)
it will either tear the tier a new asshole or end up being just kind of underwhelming I guess. subseed sets will go hard
b tier nu mon
irrelevant in singles, best mon in doubles. what is there even to say
ooooh. might actually be (sort of) good! the bulky draining kiss set from last gen seems like it'll be as potent as ever especially with tera, but the prevalence of grass types will give it a lot of trouble amongst other things. still have hopes for her, though