Right, I'm being told to, so this is my mandatory Scyther to C post.
Technician, flying stab is good, boosting moves, etc etc etc.
Technician, flying stab is good, boosting moves, etc etc etc.
I support this quality postRight, I'm being told to, so this is my mandatory Scyther to C post.
Technician, flying stab is good, boosting moves, etc etc etc.
I know there aren't strict definitions for the individual ranks anymore but look at the 'mons that are currently residing in A-; they are all highly self-sufficient 'mons that have high reward and are very splashable. Froslass is definitely high-reward, but it's highly archetype-specific and restricts teambuilding around itself. Given that viability is defined as "how useful is this?" Froslass is just not as viable as 'mons like Empoleon, Shaymin, and even Slowking which are going to be more useful, more often, in more situations for more players.the hell i do the vialbility rankingswas much better the way it was before those pokemons deserved their a/a- socan we get back the old rankings
I have my own nomination, and it may come off as kinda weird, but....
I want to nominateto drop to B+. I haven't really used Mienshao a lot compared to other Fighting-types like Heracross and Cobalion, but I played around with it on a few teams to test it out and see how it could do, but with the recent drops and changes, I've found Mienshao to be lackluster sometimes. The biggest problem for Mien I've found is Sableye, since it has priority Will-o, which makes Mienshao pretty much dead weight unless you have a cleric on your team. It's made worse since if you predict wrong and use HJK and your opponent switches in to Sableye, unless you have Regenerator, you aren't recovering from that too well, and even if you do, you can't U-Turn out from it safely because of the threat of Prankster Will-o. Zapdos dropping hurt it as well, since a lot of sets I've come across seemed to be physically defensive sets, which Mienshao cannot get past with unless it runs Stone Edge on the Life Orb set, which lets it get a 2HKO on it, but that makes it more susceptible to Florges, which is already used on plenty of teams.
I probably still need more time to play around with it some more, but from what I've experienced so far, Mienshao hasn't done me that much good compared to Heracross or Cobalion as a Fighting-type mon, since those two I found benefited a bit more with the changes and recent drops than Mienshao did.
I would like to nominate scyther to blacklisted or something, Its not getting ranked 4*weakness to rock and is outsped a lot fletchinder is a much better sd user making scythers only niche bug stab to hit rocks types and eletric types i guess but almost every eletric type is faster than scyther and we only have one common rock typeRight, I'm being told to, so this is my mandatory Scyther to C post.
Technician, flying stab is good, boosting moves, etc etc etc.
I'm gonna take that second thing as your edit, since there's no edit in THD's post and the grammar suddenly sucked.There was stuff here but Smogon derped.
The problem is normal sceptile faces competition from the likes of debateably much more versatile grass types in the tier. If you are looking for the coverage mega sceptile has and don't have your mega slot avaliable then you're next hard hitting alternative would be shaymin as with its large movepool it can hit everything normal sceptile can and more with only the loss of a little spa and a gain of a much more spamable stab move. If you want the raw power of leaf storm you have better options in specs rotom-c and offensive roserade which also obtain an addition type for stronger coverage with their stab moves. However, if you really need that coverage/speed tier so much, it's almost always better to go mega as you can get the additional speed to beat +1 gatr, scarf chande, scarf gardevoir, and speed tie with mega beedrill without losing much power, gaining an immunity to electric attacks so you can stop pivots, and you gain an addition typing in the form of dragon for a stronger dragon pulse. Using the mega also allows you to switch moves putting much less pressure on predictions. Normal sceptile is much akin to serperior before it gained contrary, which was almost unusable in the uu metagame as it was also outclassed by the other grass types in the tier. Overall, I just feel normal sceptile cannot provide much of anything over the other grass types in the tier.Now that Showdown differentiates between a mega and its regular form, I want to address the viability of Sceptile in UU. Obviously, Non-mega sceptile is outclassed by its Mega counter part, however I believe that regular Sceptile is completely viable in UU without the Sceptilite.
One major advantage that Sceptile has over Mega-Sceptile is that it frees up a mega slot for your team and still provides the same coverage that Mega-Sceptile offers. Due to the prevalence of bulky water types in UU, particularly Suicune, Swampert, Milotic, and Blastoise not to mention the RU threats of Gastrodon, Quagsire and Jellicent, Sceptile's Coverage is incredibly important and useful in the tier. Sceptile also checks offensive threats such as Feraligatr and Crawdaunt if they have not yet set up a DD.
When paired with Choice Specs, Sceptile is a very effective wall breaker in the tier, as it is capable of nuking defensive walls with Leafstorm, Dragon Pulse or Focus Blast and is able to heal itself back up with the reliable stab in Giga Drain.
One downfall to Sceptile is that it is walled by the same walls as its mega. The likes of Blissey and Florges can eat up hits from Sceptile and heal up, although Focus Blast and Leaf Storm deal a nice chunk of damage to them respectively. AV Snorlax can also take hits from Sceptile, but then cannot recover with leftovers or rest making it very easy to wear down.
Offensive threats such as Mamoswine, Entei and Arcanine can force Sceptile to switch, but cannot reliably switch into the power of a Choice Specs Leaf Storm. Offensive mons that outspeed Sceptile can also threaten it out such as Scarfed Darmanitan, Mega-Beedrill, Mega-Aerodactyl and Crobat, Beedrill and Crobat both Quad resist Sceptile's STAB but they still don't enjoy the hit due to their relative frailty.
With proper team support, Sceptile can be incredibly effective in the UU tier. Sceptile gives a reliable check to Bulky Water types, and provides a speedy Special Wall Breaker while freeing up a mega spot on your team, as well as giving you a late game sweeper.
Consistency is what gives it a rank at C+ in the first place, and that's not a bad thing. The problem with lead Aero is that it's useless outside of its lead aspect, while every other lead in the tier (bar Froslass) doesn't suffer from this element. Also, I really need to address the comment you made regarding putting reg Swampert on offensive teams, because that's a farce... you'll never see regular Swampert on any good offensive team. Secondly, Regular Sharpedo is a very mediocre Pokemon in UU. So, fair enough if you try to bluff with a Aero+Sharp core, but shame if you ever come across any priority user, especially Entei (which can now clean better than ever due to the immediate constraints you've placed on the team) as well as any standard wall. There are definitely scenarios where regular Aerodactyl can thrive, but those scenarios are limited and are seemingly obvious. With all due respect to the players that use standard Lead Aero, it's not much of a challenge. One aspect where Aero is effective is against Rapid Spin users, where Double Edge can recoil Aero and it will faint before rocks can be removed. However, Explosion Azelf is far more effective at this, since you can revenge kill a weakened Mega Blastoise/Forretress fairly easily with a common offensive option. Bluffing Mega Aero works against players than can't recognize team cohesiveness, but it'll rarely work against a good player (seriously, if lead aero was good, we would give it the usage it deserves just based on sheer effectiveness alone).Just to add to points made (I have no issue with aero staying in C+)
Sac lead aero is absurdly consistent and will always beat lead azelf, which is a pretty huge niche as it gives an edge in the offense/offense mirror and allows for greater focus on the semi/BO matchup in teambuilding. The standard lead aero also happens to chip damage very different targets than it's competition, has a deeper lure pool than you're implying, and packs the previously mentioned unerve utility which again eases teambuilding on offense to a surprising degree. I'm also not certain how pert and shark are "obvious" mega's as their normal forms are both quite good on offense. Bluffing Maero is a real strat and is frankly a much bigger perceived threat than "insert random azelf set".
Not to put too fine a point on it but... there are a lot of reasons to run aero over azelf or any of its other sac lead frens, it's just the drawback of being unable to run the single best pokemon in UU if you so happen to bring a normal aero, and the wide spread of other sac leads really cripples the hell out of aero's viability.
Seconding Gastro nomination before it dies again. Curse Gastro has been a thread in OU for some time ago and despite UU has more common grass types as well as levitating dragons, it has potential to sweep on semi-stall builds. Defensive sets are like Seismitoad with no SR (but Recover) and it's good option if you need a Scald absorber with some offensive pressure, and unlike Quagsire Gastro has decent special bulk. Lastly, add Clear Smog to its support movepool (and please don't use Pain Split) C+/B-So the Gastrodon conversation just kinda died so
I would like to re-nominate Gastrodon for C+ Rank.
Gastrodon shares the same amazing typing as Swampert, but trades Stealth Rock for a reliable recovery move in Recover. But I feel for most teams, Gastrodon's niche as a general wall and water absorber is not needed which is why Gastrodon should be restricted to C+ only. Storm Drain can give Gastrodon some interesting attacking options but I feel it does not have the potential to be a Storm Drain sweeper. Apart from that, Gastrodon recieves Memento, Ice Beam, Curse and Pain Split, offering a different but extraordinary niche role. With underpar stats, Gastrodon in my opinion only deserves C at most. At least list Gastrodon ._.
That's the point, it leads. It's not Aerodactyl's responsibility to ensure that the rocks stay up after its done its job. Aerodactyl is the most reliable rocker in the tier, fact. Hell, Aero has been the best at setting up rocks since gen 4 and nothing has changed other than the devaluation of the lead slot as a whole.Consistency is what gives it a rank at C+ in the first place, and that's not a bad thing. The problem with lead Aero is that it's useless outside of its lead aspect, while every other lead in the tier (bar Froslass) doesn't suffer from this element.
http://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/empire.3507503/ ???Also, I really need to address the comment you made regarding putting reg Swampert on offensive teams, because that's a farce... you'll never see regular Swampert on any good offensive team. Secondly, Regular Sharpedo is a very mediocre Pokemon in UU.
Fair enough, but in the same vein, Aerodactyl is doing the job you set out to do when you choose it. Like jjoshcja said, you pick Aero to sure up your offensive matchup (still good versus fat builds just due the fact that you always get rocks). Also, partnering with Mega Swampert is likely the better choice in most circumstances just for the added bulk. Additionally, if we're just directly comparing Azelf to Aero, Aero is doing a hell of a lot more in terms of padding your Entei matchup but whatever.So, fair enough if you try to bluff with a Aero+Sharp core, but shame if you ever come across any priority user, especially Entei (which can now clean better than ever due to the immediate constraints you've placed on the team) as well as any standard wall. There are definitely scenarios where regular Aerodactyl can thrive, but those scenarios are limited and are seemingly obvious. With all due respect to the players that use standard Lead Aero, it's not much of a challenge. One aspect where Aero is effective is against Rapid Spin users, where Double Edge can recoil Aero and it will faint before rocks can be removed. However, Explosion Azelf is far more effective at this, since you can revenge kill a weakened Mega Blastoise/Forretress fairly easily with a common offensive option.
Again, fair enough, but when you see Swampert I usually just think it's regular pert, even on offensive teams. Sure, you know it's not mega Aero after it doesn't mega evolve, but before then you really just have to assume it is, especially due to the pittance of usage normal Aero gets. Just as an aside, especially when you're not paying full attention, using "team cohesion" to decide which pokemon is mega usually doesn't work. I can't count the number of times I wasn't completely focused and thought a player had all of Mega Absol, Blastoise, Swampert, and Sceptile. Gonna ignore the usage comment since despite my personal thoughts on usage correlating with viability, it isn't the public viewpoint.Bluffing Mega Aero works against players than can't recognize team cohesiveness, but it'll rarely work against a good player (seriously, if lead aero was good, we would give it the usage it deserves just based on sheer effectiveness alone).
I don't think it's particularly surprising that you know how to handle something after it reveals its set, that's how I'd say most players handle most things. Also, it's not strange for those teams to have other pokemon that can click Stealth rock. Pokemon that I've used in conjunction with Lead Aero in the past have included Cobalion, Metagross, Swampert, Krookodile, Bronzong, Mamoswine, Empoleon, Nidoking, and Azelf. Granted, not all of these teams were good but they functioned in some manner. One team that was good was a team that Hikari made and I ripped from somewhere. It was something along the lines of NP Luc, TR Reun, Lead Aero, Mega Swampert as the main hitters. The team as a whole excelled at pressuring the opposition to keep up rocks. Clicking Defog was thwarted by dangerous set up sweepers and a solid core that could all clean up when the opponent was weakened.Also, beating Azelf isn't an unexpected thing for any Aero set, and is, in fact, one of Aero's only advantages. If it taunts turn one against Rocks Azelf without Mega Evolving, I know exactly how to handle that lead aero, as should any half-decent player, since handling leads is a common occurrence. And again, I cannot emphasize the obvious nature of an aero lead: signs of an Aero lead include: (1) no other Stealth Rock capable mon on the team; (2) another obvious Mega slot; (3) A need for a fast paced suicide lead setter (team dependent - think Nidoking and Crawdaunt as partners). Furthermore, based on the tier itself, lead Aerodactyl struggles to find a dedicated lead slot on many offensive teams due to the competition it faced from, overall, more effective leads against a larger portion of the meta. It has nothing to do with "Insert random Azelf slot here", rather, it has to do with the fact that Azelf has multiple effective sets that involve setting rocks and it targets different Pokemon, which adds to its unpredictable nature.
No, it's highly specialized and performs its job at a crazy efficiency. It's up to the rest of the team to make sure setting up rocks wasn't pointless either through good play or good team structure. Poor turn management doesn't equate to a bad pokemon.So yeah, at the risk of repeating myself further, lead aero is mediocre as tits.