Double Battle Metagame.

[Wilhemina]

I've had varying success with a Cherrim + Victreebel set for sometime, but I've been thinking about making a Vileplume that would pair up well with Cherrim as well.

Cherrim @ Hot Rock
Timid 200 HP / 108 SpAtk / 200 Speed
- Sunny Day
- Solarbeam
- Leech Seed
- Helping Hand

Vileplume @ Fist Plate
Jolly 52 HP / 252 Atk / 200 Speed
- Solarbeam / Razor Leaf
- Drain Punch
- Fling
- Sleep Powder

I'm still trying to figure what EVs would be best for it, and if Solarbeam would be preferable over Razor Leaf. Razor Leaf did well for Victreebel under Flower Gift and Helping Hand (and crit hax helps...) but I worry that Vileplume's lower Attack base stat might make Solarbeam more effective.

Fist Plate is there to help Drain Punch's damage, as well as providing a 90 BP Dark move that should be helpful in the face of Psychic/Ghost danger, which Victreebel severely lacked.

In the past I used a Choice Scarf Primeape to smash threats (usually via U-turn) while Cherrim let the sunshine before Victreebel came in. I'm pretty sure my practice will help to let Vileplume do well with this strategy too. It's still funny looking, but perhaps a might less gimmicky than my Natural Gift-Fire Victreebel that could help bolster success.

 

[1059860]

The reason Slowbro has Swagger because its ability prevented confusion.

Shuckle doesn't have that ability so it has to work with Safeguard. Positive side is, Slaking won't be paralyzed while Jolteon can ruin the Slaking.

 

[Go2Sleep02]

2 VS 2 Combo Salamence and Gyarados

Salamence @ Life Orb
Intimidate
252 SpA / 252 Spd / 6 HP Modest
~ Hydro Pump
~ Protect
~ Flamethrower
~ Dragon Pulse


+

Gyarados @ Leftovers
Intimidate
212 HP / 180 Def / 100 Spd / 16 Atk Jolly
~ Dragon Dance
~ Protect
~ Earthquake
~ Waterfall


The whole idea behind this is to do a Double Intimidate which will force your opponent to switch his two pokemon out ( if there physical sweepers ) which will give you a free turn. Salamence here hits with Special Attacks and Gyarados here strikes with Physical hits. End result this combo is awesome. If your opponent lead off with Special Attackers than this is just about screwed.

 

[Psy37]

@Crisomar's Gyardos+Salamence: If you can find a not-needed moveslot on Gyarados, Taunt could work wonders to stop your opponent from setting up, which is more important in doubles than singles. You could also make it a double-Earthquake for the fun of it...

 

[TheMaskedNitpicker]

This is something I saw on PBR recently. Very deadly.

Typhlosion @ Power Herb
Blaze
EVs: ???
~ Eruption
~ SolarBeam
~ Protect
~ ???

Vaporeon @ ???
Water Absorb
EVs: ???
~ Hydro Pump
~ Icy Wind
~ Helping Hand
~ ???

Again, the blanks are there because this is something my opponent used. Expecting a Choice Scarf Eruption, I was all ready to Fake Out and maim the Typhlosion on the first round when it Protects and Vaporeon hits me with Icy Wind, making my Ambipom and Alakazam slower than Typhlosion (and ruining 'Zam's Focus Sash). Then I get hit with a Helping Hand-boosted Eruption. I swapped in my Politoed, but that got SolarBeamed next round. Ouch!

 

[Go2Sleep02]

This is something I saw on PBR recently. Very deadly.

Typhlosion @ Power Herb
Blaze
EVs: ???
~ Eruption
~ SolarBeam
~ Protect
~ ???

Vaporeon @ ???
Water Absorb
EVs: ???
~ Hydro Pump
~ Icy Wind
~ Helping Hand
~ ???

Again, the blanks are there because this is something my opponent used. Expecting a Choice Scarf Eruption, I was all ready to Fake Out and maim the Typhlosion on the first round when it Protects and Vaporeon hits me with Icy Wind, making my Ambipom and Alakazam slower than Typhlosion (and ruining 'Zam's Focus Sash). Then I get hit with a Helping Hand-boosted Eruption. I swapped in my Politoed, but that got SolarBeamed next round. Ouch!

Looks very deadly I wish ya could have swap battle passes.

 

[Bourbon]

WHAT O_O

That's completely retarded, lol, wish I could fit it in my sig.

 

[Rhykune]

Don't make fun of my weight!!!


For Ubers:

@Leftovers / Salac Berry / Life Orb
Evs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spd
Jolly/Adamant Natured
~ Swords Dance
~ Earthquake
~ Dragon Claw / Shadow Claw
~ Stone Edge / Overheat / Fire Punch / Substitute

Lvl.19

~ Follow Me

So Sentret uses Follow Me, hopefully getting killed while Groudon Swords Dances or Sets up a Sub. Than this comes in:

@Leftovers
Evs: 252 HP, 200 Def, 156 SDef
Bold Natured
~ Helping Hand
~ Protect
~ Solarbeam
~ Grass Whistle

Has unlimited sun to provide an endless flower gift and give a helping hand boost. This = pain! Never tried it but it looks good enough on paper.

Looking for comments.

 

[TheMaskedNitpicker]

I can't really say how well the Groudon/Sentret/Cherrim thing would work in practice. I'd like to see how much it hurts the bulky Cherrim with a STABed, Flower Gift, Helping Hand Earthquake before commenting. As you say, though, it looks good on paper.

Also, where are you planning to use it? Most battles on Wi-Fi will have automatically scaled levels, so your Sentret will most likely be level 50 or 100. That probably won't matter too much, but I thought I'd mention it.

 

[sandman]

Might as well post this.

@ Salac Berry
Blaze
252AT/ 4DE/ 252SPE and Adamant
Note ( HP IV 30)
~ Substitute
~ Belly Drum
~ Fire Punch
~ Earthquake


+

@ Focus Sash or Lum Berry
Motor Drive
4 HP/ 252 AT/ 252 SPE and Adamant or Jolly
~ Follow Me (From XD: Gale of Darkness)
~ Thunder Punch
~ Ice Punch
~ Cross Chop/ Earthquake

Typical Follow Me + Belly Drum set up only with an added bonus. If your opponent sends out an electric type, assuming he doesn't know Electivire can use follow me, you can steel a speed boost with his ability! how awesome would that be, sweeping with a salac boosted Electivire and Bellyzard. The choice of Lum berry or Focus Sash is your choice because putting Electivire to sleep will ruin the strategy since next turn both pokemon can attack charizard breaking his sub then hitting his 25% left HP.

 

[Go2Sleep02]

Since the Official Nintendo Tourney is comming up I think its time we discuss some strategies I remember Obi's lead exploder + endure smeargle combo with a fake outer will now we have much better users for Fake Out such as Infernape, Ambipom, Weavile, and several others.

 

[Jibaku]

Since the Official Nintendo Tourney is comming up I think its time we discuss some strategies I remember Obi's lead exploder + endure smeargle combo with a fake outer will now we have much better users for Fake Out such as Infernape, Ambipom, Weavile, and several others.

Sort of what I was thinking of, except with a little twist. It involves a Lv. 1 Smeargle with Endeavor and Sash (not required, really, because 12 HP is enough to bring your opponent down to low HP for the kill, but extra survival is always handy), and Trick Room, and some way to set up for it while trying to avoid being Taunted at the same time. Last part I'm still working on...

I've made the team long ago, hoping to possibly use it now.

 

[Little Green Yoda]

Sort of what I was thinking of, except with a little twist. It involves a Lv. 1 Smeargle with Endeavor and Sash (not required, really, because 12 HP is enough to bring your opponent down to low HP for the kill, but extra survival is always handy), and Trick Room, and some way to set up for it while trying to avoid being Taunted at the same time. Last part I'm still working on...

I've made the team long ago, hoping to possibly use it now.

Follow Me = free set-up for one of your Pokemon

 

[BlueCookies]

I've been thinking about the same exact thing. I'd use a Bronzong to set up Trick Room, and then Probably hypnotize, or explode, or both, and use either a Follow Me Togekiss or a Lv.1 Smeargle @ Focus Sash to Fake Out/Follow Me so I can almost guarentee a TR set up. Focus sash gets even better for this due to the Lack of T-Tar, but there are still priority moves to ruin it. Anyway, I would then probably rape with Smeargle's Dark Void and some kind of Slow sweeper, maybe Machamp. I'm still working on it though.

 

[Ashenlock]

The problem with Follow Me is, the fastest pokemon that can use it are still slower than the fast Fake Out users (When people see Togekiss in a double battle match, Follow Me is easily predicted). There was someone a while ago who used Heracross and Snorlax to win the Pokemon XD Orre battles. Heracross would Endure while Snorlax Self-Destructed, so afterwards Heracross would have fully powered Reversal. Unfortunately, with the prevalence of Sandstream (And especially Fake Out in the double battle metagame) it is not as useful.

 

[Jibaku]

The problem with Follow Me is, the fastest pokemon that can use it are still slower than the fast Fake Out users (When people see Togekiss in a double battle match, Follow Me is easily predicted). There was someone a while ago who used Heracross and Snorlax to win the Pokemon XD Orre battles. Heracross would Endure while Snorlax Self-Destructed, so afterwards Heracross would have fully powered Reversal. Unfortunately, with the prevalence of Sandstream (And especially Fake Out in the double battle metagame) it is not as useful.

In my case, I'd have none of that. I'd have Dusknoir or Zong Trick Rooming, while I'd let Togekiss die because it has already served its job using Follow Me, allowing me to send out Smeargle to replace its corpse. Heracross, on the other hand, will be crippled with the Trick Room, and thus will simply lie there to die in a single hit. In this case, this is *free* set up for destruction, as Dusknoir can finish off Hera while Smeargle Spores the Lax replacement.

Oh and Follow Me has priority over Fake Out

 

[Go2Sleep02]

A New Combo that I think has not been used yet. Lickilicky and Dusknoir. I'm not sure if this could work.

Lickilicky @ Life Orb
Own Tempo
252 Atk / 172 HP / 84 Def Brave
~ Earthquake
~ Explosion
~ Swords Dance / Return
~ Helping Hand

+

Dusknoir @ Leftovers
Pressure
252 HP / 180 SpD / 76 Atk Sassy
~ Imprison / Helping Hand
~ Shadow Sneak
~ Protect
~ Trick Room

So this is something that I went and made to make Lickilicky an animal. Choose Imprison if you don't like your opponent using Protect when your Lickilicky is using Earthquake / Explosion or Helping Hand if you want to boost up Lickilicky's Earthquake or Return by 1.5 that turn and adding the Life Orb in effect wow! A 1.95 boost! You want Protect here to shield yourself from you own Lickilicky's Earthquakes ( Wow thank you for being a Ghost type Explosion immune.) The reason Lickilicky has Helping Hand is to help Dusknoir KO Gengars / Mismagiuses in one hit that might try to ruin your fun after the Trick Room turns are up. Note Lickilicky and Dusknoir get Helping Hand as a Pokemon XD Gale of Darkness move.

Can someone help me with the EV Spread for these guys?

 

[Little Green Yoda]

The problem with Follow Me is, the fastest pokemon that can use it are still slower than the fast Fake Out users (When people see Togekiss in a double battle match, Follow Me is easily predicted). There was someone a while ago who used Heracross and Snorlax to win the Pokemon XD Orre battles. Heracross would Endure while Snorlax Self-Destructed, so afterwards Heracross would have fully powered Reversal. Unfortunately, with the prevalence of Sandstream (And especially Fake Out in the double battle metagame) it is not as useful.

Follow Me has a higher priority modifier than Fake Out

The only ways to "counter" Follow Me would be to use moves that hit both opposing Pokemon or to OHKO the Follow Me user with your first Pokemon so that your second can attack the setup Pokemon. But seeing how most setup Pokemon tend to be bulky enough to take a hit or two, the setup turn should still be successful.

EDIT: And it looks like Jibaku already said that lol.

 

[Ashenlock]

I had a feeling, but I wasn't sure if it had priority. A while ago I intended to breed Quiet Togekiss holding macho brace so it could draw in attacks via Follow Me in the beginning for Trick Room then Air Slash afterwards, but I thought it would be too slow to stop Fake Out so I went with Hariyama instead since it can Fake Out first turn for Guts activation afterwards.

 

[iruchii]

Like it was said before in the thread, chewy, OHKO + No Guard only work if you use the OHKO moves on Machamp itself. So it's not a viable strategy.

 

[Ashenlock]

Theorycraft, but perhaps:


Togekiss @ Leftovers
Ability: Serene Grace
EVs: 4 Def/252 HP/252 SDef
Calm nature (+SDef, -Atk)
-Follow Me
-Air Slash
-Shadow Ball
-Thunder Wave

Marowak @ Thick Club
Ability: Lightningrod
EVs: 4 HP/252 Atk/252 Spd
Adamant nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
-Sword Dance
-Earthquake
-Rock Slide
-Fire Punch

The premise is, Togekiss uses Follow Me to allow Marowak a Sword Dance, after which it Earthquakes to its content. Air Slash harms resistant Grass or Bug types, Shadow Ball hits Gengar, and Thunder Wave cripples things that would outspeed and endanger Marowak. Togekiss' EVs assume players will generally direct special attacks at Marowak (and can certainly be changed). Rock Slide on Marowak is for flying pokemon and Fire Punch is for Bronzong/Skarmory; I'm not sure if Lightningrod will still pull electric attacks from Togekiss after Follow Me, though.

Thank you for telling me about Follow Me's higher priority, I remember several sets I was skeptical to try before.

 

[Go2Sleep02]

Ok I have been thinking about this one for a good while now this is for the upcomming 2 vs 2 Pokemon tournament. Remember folks Item Clause is on.

Kingdra @ Damp Rock
Ability: Swift Swim
EVs: 252 SpA / 168 HP / 88 Spe
~ Rain Dance
~ Hydro Pump
~ Dragon Pulse
~ Ice Beam


+

Ludicolo @ Big Root
Ability: Swift Swim
EVs: 252 HP / 180 SpD / 76 Def
Nature: Calm
~ Fake Out
~ Leech Seed
~ Protect
~ Substitute


Ok I was thinking of getting a Rain Dance right off the start so Ludicolo would use Fake Out on the bigger threat while Kingdra sets up a Rain Dance. If Grass Pokemon want ruin Ludicolo's stalling Kingdra has Ice Beam covered. Hydro Pump is here because Surf would hit Ludicolo. Anyone here familair with Stallrein? Well thats what I am trying to do with Ludicolo in this Double Battle he stalls and Kingdra attacks.

 

[TheMaskedNitpicker]

A few comments. First, Ludicolo couldn't really care less about getting hit by Surf, even in the rain. More importantly, it is not practical to stall with one Pokémon and attack with the other. That's basically saying to your opponent: go ahead and ignore Ludicolo until it's the last Pokémon remaining. Once your Ludicolo has set up Leech Seed on each opponent, it can literally do nothing but sit around using Protect and Substitute. Once your opponent has taken out all your other Pokémon, they will be able to make short work of Ludicolo; one opponent will break your Sub and the other will attack Ludicolo.

Long story short: the Stallrein tactic doesn't work that way in Doubles.

Also, what's with Swift Swim on your stalling Ludicolo? You'd think Rain Dish would be the clear choice there.

Anyhow, if you want to fix this up, Ludicolo needs at least one attack, maybe two or three. If you keep Swift Swim, go with Fake Out, Surf/Hydro Pump, Ice Beam, and Energy Ball.

If you go with Rain Dish (which is perfectly fine), go with Fake Out, Leech Seed, Surf/Hydro Pump, and Giga Drain. Giga Drain and Leech Seed will both benefit from Big Root, making it superior to Leftovers (even without Item Clause). If you go this route, you might consider taking EVs out of HP and pumping them into Def and SpDef, thereby increasing the percentage of HP you recover with your draining attacks.

 

[BlueCookies]

You guys probably already thought of this, but due to no sleep clause and T-Tar's banning, Lum Berry, Chesto Berry, and Focus sash become a whole lot better, and the 2 berries become almost mandatory if you are trying to set up.

 

[Mekkah]

Using Scarf Jumpluff with Gastro Acid on your partner might not be a bad idea, especially if Dark Void Smeargle is running about. All the better if it's Slaking you're helping out.