Double Battle Metagame.

[Kayos]

Hi, I'm new to Smogon and my name is Kayos. (pronounced chaos). I was looking around and discovered this thread about double battles.
Is there anything here on the combo of Skill Swap@Levitate Paired with Metagross? A good combo for this would be this pair of movesets:
Bronzong@Shuca Berry
Levitate
252def/252hp/4sdef
Relaxed
-Skill Swap
-Gyro Ball
-Hypnosis
-Reflect/Light Screen
This set is good while it can set up for Metagross to sweep well while still being able to status some of your opponents pokemon. (I know,55 accuracy isn't that great). Skill Swap is the entire focus of this set and is put onto Metagross, making it immune to it's biggest weakness, ground. Gyro ball is capitalizing on how abysmally slow Bronzong is, and is why I chose a Relaxed nature. Hypnosis is more of a disruption move, emphasizing how versatile Bronzong is. Reflect and Light Screen can be interchanged to suit your team's needs, if you fear the high powered Fire attacks such as OverHeat and FireBlast. Now for the Gross set:

Metagross@Life Orb
Clear Body
252atk/176spd/176def
Adamant
-Earthquake
-MeteorMash
-ThunderPunch
-Explosion
This set is based around having lots of power while still enjoying the versatility of changing moves and only having one weakness. Earthquake provides excellent type coverage and very good accuracy with power, MeteorMash is for STAB and taking care of Ice types. ThunderPunch is for coverage against water types that are not covered by the latter 2 moves. Explosion is to go out with a bang when Metagross is at low HP.

Hope you like my first post
K.

 

[lordkira]

I've been meaning to use Skill Swap Bronzong (Levi) with Heatran.
Maybe it would work nicely in a sunny day team :/

 

[CCM30]

My only problem with the Skill Swap of Metagross and Bronzong is that regardless if the skill swap is used or not, at least one of them will still be prone to Earthquake. Sure, Metagross may dodge EQ, but now Bronzong won't.

It seems like eventually one of them will be KOd because of what it is gaining or losing because of Skill Swap or may be double teamed during or after it works.

 

[lordkira]

bronzong is also the one with explosion as well
it's true bronzong will have problem with eq but the primary goal of it is really to setup skill swap for heatran. also, the eq that it really fears ohko is from th likes of offensive groudons. against non tr teams, it will be able to at least have the chance to explode, which, with the correct usage, can really cause havok as well or at least some damage besides its primary goal.

 

[CCM30]

bronzong is also the one with explosion as well
it's true bronzong will have problem with eq but the primary goal of it is really to setup skill swap for heatran. also, the eq that it really fears ohko is from th likes of offensive groudons. against non tr teams, it will be able to at least have the chance to explode, which, with the correct usage, can really cause havok as well or at least some damage besides its primary goal.

That is, of course, if your main strategy is to explode immediately after Bronzong loses levitate.

 

[lordkira]

pretty much, yep

 

[Marowak105]

I haven't looked through the whole thread so I don't know if this combo was already posted, but here goes.

Sceptile @ Choice Scarf
Overgrow
252 Sp Attack and Speed.
Timid.
Worry Seed
Energy Ball
Dragon Pulse
Focus Blast.


Regigigas @ Lum Berry
Slow Start
252 Attack and Speed.
Jolly/Adamant
Return
Earthquake
Zen Headbutt
Fire Punch.


The Idea behind this combo is to get rid of Regi's awful ability and turn it into something useful. With Choice Scarf Sceptile will outrun pretty much everything that isn't using a priority move, and get to change Regi's ability instantly + if your opponent is using something like Azelf or Gengar, yo can worry seed them too and they'll take EQ damage as well. Of course, you do want to switch out after doing that tho unless you don't mind him dying. As for Regi, Return is Stab, Eq takes care of steels and Rocks. Zen hurts Weezing and Slower Fighters. And Fire Punch Hurts any steels EQ can't(Skarmory says "hi").
The Lum berry is there to protect VS WoW(believe me ppl will try) and paralysis both of which would cripple it big time.
The rest of Sceptile's moves are there for when/if he's switched back in, Energy ball gets Stab, DPulse hurts Flygon and Mence as well as kingdra, and focus blast is for Steel types which resist the other two moves.

 

[CCM30]

I haven't looked through the whole thread so I don't know if this combo was already posted, but here goes.

Sceptile @ Choice Scarf
Overgrow
252 Sp Attack and Speed.
Timid.
Worry Seed
Energy Ball
Dragon Pulse
Focus Blast.


Regigigas @ Lum Berry
Slow Start
252 Attack and Speed.
Jolly/Adamant
Return
Earthquake
Zen Headbutt
Fire Punch.


The Idea behind this combo is to get rid of Regi's awful ability and turn it into something useful. With Choice Scarf Sceptile will outrun pretty much everything that isn't using a priority move, and get to change Regi's ability instantly + if your opponent is using something like Azelf or Gengar, yo can worry seed them too and they'll take EQ damage as well. Of course, you do want to switch out after doing that tho unless you don't mind him dying. As for Regi, Return is Stab, Eq takes care of steels and Rocks. Zen hurts Weezing and Slower Fighters. And Fire Punch Hurts any steels EQ can't(Skarmory says "hi").
The Lum berry is there to protect VS WoW(believe me ppl will try) and paralysis both of which would cripple it big time.
The rest of Sceptile's moves are there for when/if he's switched back in, Energy ball gets Stab, DPulse hurts Flygon and Mence as well as kingdra, and focus blast is for Steel types which resist the other two moves.

See, my problem with these sort of strategies is that you are overlooking some key things very common in VGC doubles.

First of all, your opponent can easily Fake Out Sceptile and put at least some damage on either him or Regigigas. If they kill Sceptile before it can Worry Seed on Regigigas, then he's useless. If they kill Regigigas beforehand instead, then the whole point of having him is also useless.

I'm just not for these gimmick sets or really any sort of supporting thing at all. The only useful support strategies I see in VGC are self-supporting, as in Swords Dance or Dragon Dance or what have you. If you use them right, then it's extremely beneficial. You'd have to be braindead to not know when to use them or not. And even if you fail epically, you can still save what you have left.

With this set, however, you whole lead is extremely based off of Regigigas' ability to get going early. He won't be outrunning a whole lot without Choice Scarf, so who's to say that it will even do anything when it gains Insomnia? And that's, of course, if Sceptile is even able to get Worry Seed set up in time.

It's worth a shot, but its a risk-reward and, in my opinion, the risk is a bit larger than the reward.

 

[Marowak105]

See, my problem with these sort of strategies is that you are overlooking some key things very common in VGC doubles.

First of all, your opponent can easily Fake Out Sceptile and put at least some damage on either him or Regigigas. If they kill Sceptile before it can Worry Seed on Regigigas, then he's useless. If they kill Regigigas beforehand instead, then the whole point of having him is also useless.

I'm just not for these gimmick sets or really any sort of supporting thing at all. The only useful support strategies I see in VGC are self-supporting, as in Swords Dance or Dragon Dance or what have you. If you use them right, then it's extremely beneficial. You'd have to be braindead to not know when to use them or not. And even if you fail epically, you can still save what you have left.

With this set, however, you whole lead is extremely based off of Regigigas' ability to get going early. He won't be outrunning a whole lot without Choice Scarf, so who's to say that it will even do anything when it gains Insomnia? And that's, of course, if Sceptile is even able to get Worry Seed set up in time.

It's worth a shot, but its a risk-reward and, in my opinion, the risk is a bit larger than the reward.

I see your point perfectly, now, I can safely say this set works on STANDARD double battles because I've used it countless times, and I can count with my fingers the number of times Sceptile hasn't been able to set up. Now I have no clue how this set would work in VGC battles since they are 4 VS 4 the reliabilities of certain strategies changes greatly, maybe this is one of them I don't know.

 

[CCM30]

I see your point perfectly, now, I can safely say this set works on STANDARD double battles because I've used it countless times, and I can count with my fingers the number of times Sceptile hasn't been able to set up. Now I have no clue how this set would work in VGC battles since they are 4 VS 4 the reliabilities of certain strategies changes greatly, maybe this is one of them I don't know.

Well, hey, if it works, no harm done. I haven't tested it myself, so I can't say much past speciulation and opinion, but if it works for you, go for it.

 

[JRank]

OK, how about this:

Breloom @ Choice Scarf
Jolly
Poison Heal
EVs: ???
Spore
???
???
???

Kyogre @ Choice Scarf/Specs
Modest/Timid
Drizzle
EVs: ???
Water Spout
Sleep Talk
Ice Beam
Thunder

The idea is for Breloom to Spore Kyogre so Ogre can Sleep Talk and use different attacks.

 

[DDRMaster]

OK, how about this:

Breloom @ Choice Scarf
Jolly
Poison Heal
EVs: ???
Spore
???
???
???

Kyogre @ Choice Scarf/Specs
Modest/Timid
Drizzle
EVs: ???
Water Spout
Sleep Talk
Ice Beam
Thunder

The idea is for Breloom to Spore Kyogre so Ogre can Sleep Talk and use different attacks.

That won't work. Kyogre will be forced to use Struggle on the second turn.
http://www.smogon.com/dp/items/choice_scarf

If the holder of this item uses Sleep Talk, it will select a random move for the first turn, and receive the boost as usual, but all subsequent uses of Sleep Talk or the move chosen by Sleep Talk will fail until the holder switches out.

 

[kiryu3000]

I've come up with a gimmick set, but I thought I should share anyway:

Agiligross, but instead of Agility it has Psych Up

Ninjask
248 HP/192 DEF/68 SPD
Leftovers

• Protect
• Substitute
• Swords Dance
• Baton Pass

Basically, threaten a Baton Pass while picking off present opposing Pokemon with Metagross, especially when Ninjask is not using Protect. Then when time allows, use Psych Up on Ninjask and if possible pass stats to something else. Don't know if Psych Up bypasses Protect, but I thought Psych Up would be a lot more useful in double battles. Or instead of Ninjask, you could use Gliscor.

 

[imapedarsag]

I've been meaning to post this for a while:

Metagross@Life Orb
112 HP / 252 Atk / 12 Def / 132 Spe
~ Agility
~ Meteor Mash
~ Earthquake
~ Explosion

Mismagius@Life Orb
4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
~ Nasty Plot
~ Substitute / Taunt / Hidden Power Fighting
~ Shadow Ball
~ Thunderbolt / Hidden Power Fighting

They'll probably expect an explosion and protect. During this time, you can set up with nasty plot and agility. Next turn, you have many options. You can explode if they protected the turn before and by doing so, you'll give Mismagius another nasty plot. Or, you can just start your sweep then and there. Ugh, just noticed a big Gengar problem. But who leads with Gengar, right? Mismagius outspeeds any neutral speed Infernape and any +speed Infernape with anything less than 232 EV's, a.k.a. all non choiced or endeavor sets on its analysis page. Please help me, as I know this has potential. Thanks to anyone who helps.

Calculations:

After one Nasty Plot;

Shadow Ball vs. Lead Ape(Infernape) = 147.4% - 173.4%
Shadow Ball vs. Standard Rotom-H,C,W = 182.2% - 215.1%
HP Fighting vs. Lead Tyranitar = 91.1% - 107.9%
HP Fighting vs. DD/CS Tyranitar = 133.3% - 157.9%
HP Fighting vs. CB Snorlax = 54.5% - 64.5%

 

[DDRMaster]

For the first sets, you should put more physical moves on Medicham since once it switches out it will get Pure Power back. Priority users will completely mess up Deoxys so you should be sure to bring in a Pokemon that has a priority move and can take a hit.

For the second sets, you should probably go with Brick Break over Superpower on Deoxys-S so you don't lower your attack.

Edit: @ lordkira: I don't know if he's taking about VGC but I'm just responding to the sets.

 

[lordkira]

Are you guys talking about double meta of VGC?
if so...darkrai and deoxys forms aren't allowed.

 

[tr4q]

Metagame=

Kyogre-
Groudon-
Rayquaza-
Mewtwo-
Metagross-
Smeargle-
Toxicroak-
Togekiss-
Weavile-
Ludicolo-
Dialga-
Palkia-
Abomasnow-
Zapdos-
Lugia-
Ho-oh-
Giratina-
Giratina-O-
Blissey-
Tyranitar-
Latias-
Latios-
Garchomp-
Kingdra-
Shiftry-
Jumpluff-
Exeggutor-
Gengar-
Snorlax-
Infernape-
Cresselia-
Hippowdon-
Clefable-
Azelf-
Golduck-
Shedinja-

 

[Chomper The Sharptooth]

Having never played ubers I just wanted to ask, wouldn't it make more sense to run Deoxys-S with that medicham? The lesser attack is a turn off but it can take a hit from priority and outspeeds whatever isn't.

 

[Airfoil]

In most cases it would be considered a better idea to use the faster Pokemon, but not in this case. Deoxys, Deoxys attack, and Deoxys speed are faster than all unboosted Pokemon besides Ninjask, who never carries attack moves (everyone uses his stat boosting abilities, that...and he is very frail). Deoxys attack will outrun just about anything that Speed would.

As for the priority threat...your right. Unless you pull out a Follow Me wall, your deoxys will suffer from all priority users, SS, and Hail. Sucker Punch will shred him to pieces.

 

[Marowak105]

Medicham: Choice Scarf
252 HP / 252 Spe / 4 Def
Jolly

Fake-out
Trick
Magic Coat
Filler


Deoxys-A: Focus Sash
252 Attack / Speed

Skill Swap
Ice Punch
Thunder Punch
Protect

First turn: Fake-out + Skill Swap. Focus Sash keeps Deoxys alive

2nd turn: Protect + Switch out Medicham.

3rd Turn: attack with both Pokemon fast/first

See the only problem there is on that second turn, you are leaving your opponent free to set up w/e he/she wants. This includes TR, which will ruin poor deoxys before you can even blink. Not to mention use feint(I've seen it) which also ruins you instantly. Besides, SS and Hail teams make the Sash useless.

 

[Jibaku]

That won't work. Kyogre will be forced to use Struggle on the second turn.

Not even. When Kyogre uses Sleep Talk on the second turn it's out with a Choice item attached to it, it will select Sleep Talk but the move will fail.

 

[imapedarsag]

Medicham: Focus Sash
252 HP / 252 Spe / 4 Def
Jolly

Fake-out
Trick
Magic Coat
Filler


Deoxys-A: Focus Sash
252 Attack / Speed

Skill Swap
Ice Punch
Thunder Punch
Protect

First turn: Fake-out + Skill Swap. Focus Sash keeps Deoxys alive

2nd turn: Protect + Switch out Medicham.

3rd Turn: attack with both Pokemon fast/first


-----

Weavile: King's Rock
252 Attack / 252 Speed


Fake-out
Fling
Swagger
Ice Shard


Mewtwo: Razor Fang
252 Spe / 252 Atk
+Spe Nature

Fling
Selfdestruct
Taunt
Filler

Shiftry: Life Orb/King's Rock/Razor Fang
252 Spe / 252 Atk
+Spe

Fake Out
Explosion
Sucker Punch
Quick Attack/Knock Off/Fling/Filler

Bolded are my edits. I believe that this will kill more pokemon and gives you a backup plan as well as a better chance of survival, IMO.

First, second, and third turn are the same(fake out+skill swap, switch and protect, fake out/fling and attack)

4th turn: You'd probably want to go to Mewtwo. With his huge speed, he can instantly wipe 2 pokemon off the opponents team. In VGC, your opponent could quite possibly be down to his last pokemon now.

Problems: There is no way to solve the Feint problem. Trick Room can be stopped, depending on who's starting it. For example, if it's Bronzong, then just Fake Out on him on the first turn and attack him on the next. If its a ghost like Dusknoir, pray he doesn't have a sash because Fake Out doesn't affect him. As for weather, one of the fillers could be rain dance or sunny day, but most likely, weather is going to kill Deoxys.

 

[mtr]

Just curious: does anyone anticipate Speed Boost Yanmega being a threat in a 2 Ubers metagame? I can imagine him doing well on Rain teams as a utility check against Ludicolo, Toxicroak, and Shedinja. Speed Boost and a solid special attack stat also make him a threat provided that you can beat Snorlax and his Trick Room cronies.

Then again, I don't play Doubles, so I'm just theorymoning. I'd like to get into it with SB2, though.

 

[Ice-eyes]

I like the look of Feargle Trick Room.

Smeargle @ Focus Sash (Level 1 Smeargle)
IVs: 0 HP, 0 Def, 0 SpDef, 0 Spe
Own Tempo
EVs: 252 Atk
Brave (+Atk, -Spe)
Fake Out
Endeavor
Dark Void
Extremespeed/Protect

Basically, you get your other lead to set up Trick Room while you Fake Out or Dark Void, your Sash gets broken, then you start firing off Endeavor.

 

[mattj]

I like the look of Feargle Trick Room.

Smeargle @ Focus Sash (Level 1 Smeargle)
IVs: 0 HP, 0 Def, 0 SpDef, 0 Spe
Own Tempo
EVs: 252 Atk
Brave (+Atk, -Spe)
Fake Out
Endeavor
Dark Void
Extremespeed/Protect

Basically, you get your other lead to set up Trick Room while you Fake Out or Dark Void, your Sash gets broken, then you start firing off Endeavor.

My Brave 0spd Hippowdon and Tyranitar, and Quiet 0spd Abomasnow leads love this idea. ;)