Metagame SV OU Metagame Discussion v3

[kosecant]

Coming from the person that tried to argue that being almost forced to run a specific item to function well (Booster Energy with Valiant, HDB with Volcorona) is actually a positive and Darkrai being able to run multiple different items is a negative, trying to act like other people are being embarrassing is kinda funny. Like, do you actually think that either Valiant or Volcorona wouldn't love to just be able to run different items without suddenly being hamstrung?

I did not say they’re forced to run other items. I said that they have an optimal item they want to run. That’s a very different thing. HDB did not exist for the first 3 generations Volc existed and it did just fine in OU. HDB is just the perfect item for it. Booster energy is the best item on Valiant. I even said that it runs HDB and choice specs, just less frequently than booster energy.

Darkrai is much more affected by the opportunity cost of running certain items that Volc and Valiant are. Those three items are all good on Darkrai, but it really misses the benefits of the items it’s not running. Way more than Volcarona. Way more than Iron Valiant.

 

[YNM]

- Yeah I got nothing, but Bayleef is pretty cool

Game Freak PLEASE buff this goddamn mon, go full errata on its ass and change its Stats/Ability while also making it a dual Grass/Fairy type. This guy STINKS.

- I will fight till the death to keep this one in OU for at least 48 hours. I'll give up Chi-Yu if I have to. Jokes aside, Speed Boost mon with Tera sounds very promising, but Gen 8 OU proved that Blaziken will find ways to struggle, whether it's +2 not being strong enough, or having to deal with a ton of recoil from Flare Blitz + Rocky Helmet. At worse, Kingambit probably beats it in the usual painful way.

With Hazards being so popular in the current meta, I think that Blaziken has no way of ending up being broken. It doesn't hit hard enough without Life Orb/Swords Dance, its Speed Boost won't be enough to let it outspeed common threats like Valiant and Moth at +1 (and if it runs Protect it suffers from a lack of coverage), and between all the recoil with Flare Blitz, Life Orb and Rocky Helmet it will only end up getting revenge-killed by Gambit or Rillaboom fairly quickly. I don't think it'll be bad since it has now access to Tera, but I wouldn't be surprised if it once again ended up in UUBL (or maybe even UU).

- I'm gonna predict it gets Spikes given Gastrodon and Quagsire got them too, but other than that, it'll probably be outclassed.

Spikes would definitely make it better, but with likely no access to Toxic and Scald it'll have a hard time offering as much utility as it did in the previous gens, especially considering the current power creep. A basic set with Rocks, Spikes, EQ and Flip Turn could definitely find some niche in OU though.

- Very interesting mon because Glare, Sub Seed, and Screen shenanigans are all very potent without tera, but offensively, it probably does want Tera Blast to get past Fire, Flying, and Steel types.

Any mon this fast with access to Glare can find some kind of niche in OU, especially considering its more than average bulk that would pair really well with a defensive Tera such as Fairy, Water or Steel. I think that it could find a spot in HO strategies as a form of Speed control besides Sticky Web, despite still suffering from its very pathetic Special Attack.

- Doubles and VGC are gonna hate this one returning. Defensively it does seem cool with its stats + intimidate, but does want Knock Off very badly. Hopefully it gets it, if not, then we'll have to see what moves it kept.

Can't wait to see what kinda buff GF will give it, since apparently they love it so fucking much. Looks like they won't be happy until it completely breaks the VGC competitive scene.

- Finally another Water/Fairy type, and it should be a nice addition in general. It's a nice mix of solid defensive typing as well as its offensive stabs being very hard to switch into. Calm Mind sets were pretty nice early Gen 8, and now it has the option to Tera, not to mention that it benefits a lot from Toxapex getting nerfed to oblivion.

I'm SO excited for this mon, we really need a Water/Fairy type in this meta to check threats like Samurott-H, Kingambit, Greninja and Wake. I really hope it gets some cool buffs as it would really appreciate some reliable form of recovery or some better coverage.

 

[MegaScizor32]

I hate to do this, but I will kindly ask you all to quit discussing Hypnosis Darkrai. The only thing it's breaking is this thread unfortunately.

Anyways, to shift gears, I had a fun topic with roughly 8 days until DLC2. We don't know anything yet, but we do know that every starter is returning. It'll be the first time for all of them in a tera metagame, so maybe some of them might have surprising results, others might be fun in a lower tier. Have fun with it, and also keep in mind we don't know what moves they still have and what they lost. The only question I have for everyone is:



Which of the above starters are you excited to see the most and why? I'll post my thoughts first to start us off:

- Depends if it still has access to Weather Ball and Earth Power, but it could easily be a staple on Sun and a pretty good one with Chlorophyll + Growth + solid coverage and Tera to further increase its damage output.

- Shell Smash should make it fun at the minimum.

- Yeah I got nothing, but Bayleef is pretty cool

- So one cool thing to me is that in ORAS OU, Feraligatr is pretty similar with Mega Gyarados with DD + Waterfall + Crunch, but now we have a DD mon with Sheer Force + Life Orb AND Tera too. I'm feeling optimistic for this one. That being said, it probably needs 2 DD's to outspeed all the Booster Energy mons we have, but it'll be fun at least.

- Unburden physical sets get a little stronger with Tera, but it'll probably be underwhelming or pretty good in a lower tier

- I will fight till the death to keep this one in OU for at least 48 hours. I'll give up Chi-Yu if I have to. Jokes aside, Speed Boost mon with Tera sounds very promising, but Gen 8 OU proved that Blaziken will find ways to struggle, whether it's +2 not being strong enough, or having to deal with a ton of recoil from Flare Blitz + Rocky Helmet. At worse, Kingambit probably beats it in the usual painful way.

- I'm gonna predict it gets Spikes given Gastrodon and Quagsire got them too, but other than that, it'll probably be outclassed.

- Very interesting mon because Glare, Sub Seed, and Screen shenanigans are all very potent without tera, but offensively, it probably does want Tera Blast to get past Fire, Flying, and Steel types.

- Tera with Reckless is probably cool .... in randbats

- Doubles and VGC are gonna hate this one returning. Defensively it does seem cool with its stats + intimidate, but does want Knock Off very badly. Hopefully it gets it, if not, then we'll have to see what moves it kept.

- Finally another Water/Fairy type, and it should be a nice addition in general. It's a nice mix of solid defensive typing as well as its offensive stabs being very hard to switch into. Calm Mind sets were pretty nice early Gen 8, and now it has the option to Tera, not to mention that it benefits a lot from Toxapex getting nerfed to oblivion.

That's all I got for now, have a fun one and try to keep things peaceful for the last week before DLC2 drops. We're almost there and we can definitely make it there in one piece.

Im super excited for . Cant wait to mess with different sets and Tera types. Great movepool gives it lots of flexibility and speed boost is bonkers.

 

[taziathegreat]

Blaziken desperately needs Raging Fury or another high power no recoil damaging fire move.

Blaziken isn’t the paradigm of bulk but it’s bulk isn’t that bad when it’s not constantly burning it’s own HP in exchange for now average attack power

 

[Real Pikachu]

- Very interesting mon because Glare, Sub Seed, and Screen shenanigans are all very potent without tera, but offensively, it probably does want Tera Blast to get past Fire, Flying, and Steel types.

Anyone think this has a chance of getting Regieleki'd out of the format because I think it'd be really funny. Anyways Scale Shot + Bullet Seed Loaded Dice Sceptile will be bad but funny.

 

[Hiddenfreezer]

nobody seems to be scared of Seperior. I am confused.

With Tera how can it be considered bad?

 

[Magcargo]

Regarding Incineroar, I am wondering if it could pull off a bulky pivot support set like Orthworm did earlier in the generation. One of my favorite Orthworm sets was the Restalk Shed Tail set, and Incineroar has similar qualities to make it a fine substitute in this role. Intimidate + Parting Shot lets it fire off multiple mini-mementos, which a teammate like Bulk Up Great Tusk may appreciate, it has access to various other utilities like Knock Off, and Will-O-Wisp, and if nothing else, it matches up decently well into Kingambit. I doubt it will be the next Orthworm, as debuff support from Parting Shot is a fair deal worse than the protection Otherworm offers, but I think it will still find a place in OU as a passable slow pivot. I'm thinking it will run a set like this.

Incineroar @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Intimidate
Tera Type: Water
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 Def
Impish Nature
- Parting Shot
- Knock Off
- Will-O-Wisp / Rest
- Low Kick / Flare Blitz / Sleep Talk

 

[Blaze_101392]

Game Freak PLEASE buff this goddamn mon, go full errata on its ass and change its Stats/Ability while also making it a dual Grass/Fairy type. This guy STINKS.

They gave Tort Shell Smash and Emp Roost and both were huge pick ups to bring life back to them. Meg needs a LOT of help, but I'm hopeful they'll give it SOMETHING since they do seem to care about the starters enough to actively throw them bones. How helpful those bones end up being remains to be seen, Raging Fury did little for Ape, but they'll try. Maybe. Hopefully.

 

[YNM]

nobody seems to be scared of Seperior. I am confused.

With Tera how can it be considered bad?

Nobody considers it bad, it's just that it still (as far as we know) suffers from the same main problems it had in the previous gens, which would be having a base 75 SpA and lacking any kind of coverage besides Dragon Pulse. Even at +2 it "only" reaches a 498 Special Attack, which is worse than Valiant, Wake, Moth or Enamorus at +1, and barely better than Specs Pult, which is significantly faster. Sure, it gets Tera Blast now, but what kinda mon do you want to get walled by? If you run Tera Blast Fire, Fairy or Ice you get walled by Heatran, and if you run Tera Ground you get walled by Corvi, Dnite, Torn-T and Zapdos. Furthermore, we now have even more vailable Unaware mons with Skeledirge and Clodsire, so you could still have trouble sweeping through a Balanced/Fat team. The only thing that could turn Serperior into a threat is its Sub+Glare set, which has the potential to win with hax, but even then it would be fairly inconsistent. Serperior could become one of the main factors of Sticky Web strategies disappearing from the meta, though.
So that's pretty much it. It's definitely not gonna be bad, but unless Game Freak gives it Earth Power, Focus Blast and Ice Beam, it still won't ever be enough to overwhelm the meta just because of Tera Blast. It also doesn't help the fact that now we have plenty of mons that can outspeed it and revenge-kill it.

Regarding Incineroar, I am wondering if it could pull off a bulky pivot support set like Orthworm did earlier in the generation. One of my favorite Orthworm sets was the Restalk Shed Tail set, and Incineroar has similar qualities to make it a fine substitute in this role. Intimidate + Parting Shot lets it fire off multiple mini-mementos, which a teammate like Bulk Up Great Tusk may appreciate, it has access to various other utilities like Knock Off, and Will-O-Wisp, and if nothing else, it matches up decently well into Kingambit. I doubt it will be the next Orthworm, as debuff support from Parting Shot is a fair deal worse than the protection Otherworm offers, but I think it will still find a place in OU as a passable slow pivot. I'm thinking it will run a set like this.

Incineroar @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Intimidate
Tera Type: Water
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 Def
Impish Nature
- Parting Shot
- Knock Off
- Will-O-Wisp / Rest
- Low Kick / Flare Blitz / Sleep Talk

I actually believe that Incineroar would be an extremely good mon in OU if only it had a reliable way to stay healthy during games, with something like Slack Off or a move similar to Bitter Blade. But it's clearly broken enough in VGC as it is, and I seriously doubt that GF is gonna buff it even more.

 

[PrincessGardevoir]

seems kinda cool for OU, Terablast means it now can yeet out of a terrible base typing to get a cool coverage move and successfully give every gen 6 OU player a heart attack "yo imagine if Serperior got STAB hidden power fire haha" and paraspreadding is, fr, one of the best tools to have right now.

's definitely the mon thatll do the best in OU if it keeps most of its tools because lol sun, shame i dont care about weather teams this gen

might escape being stuck in limbo? idk I like the prospect of getting a third STAB so you don't suicide via Flare Blitz recoil, and because Blaziken is a Fire type not forced into Boots. Tera Dark + Knock gives it utilty if it can't sweep (assuming it keeps the move lol) and means you don't autolose to Gambit, Poison gives you some really wack matchups like setting up in front of non Psyshock Valiants and making Moth regret its existence, Tera Ground + CC + Pjab hits everything Tusk would want to hit and then Enam, etc. I think it's just way too reliant on keeping Knock to get through Dirge/annoy Dozo/lando/tusk/ting lu?
...actually thats a very long list of mons that can stop it, ok maybe itll finally hit uu!







My real answer is because I want to use them in lower tiers and pop off when

252+ Atk Choice Band Reckless Tera Fire Emboar Flare Blitz vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Palossand: 336-396 (89.8 - 105.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO after 1 layer of Spikes
252+ Atk Choice Band Reckless Tera Fire Emboar Flare Blitz vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Mudsdale: 358-422 (88.6 - 104.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO after 1 layer of Spikes
-1 252+ Atk Choice Band Reckless Tera Fire Emboar Wild Charge vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Tauros-Paldea-Aqua: 238-282 (81.7 - 96.9%) -- 62.5% chance to OHKO after 1 layer of Spikes

look at me boy go, look at him smash through everything like zhu bajie

 

[Heatranator]

A good mon for sun teams, which have fallen off, so this could be interesting. Tera fire is an obvious choice, but will probably drop to UU or RU despite tera giving it more firepower (see what I did there)

Haha. Shell smash + water spout go brrr. In lower tiers, this will be great and could give another potential spinner, but will never crack OU.

Please for the love of god gamefreak, buff this damn floral longneck. If it doesn't we riot, and I'm not even a huge lover of meganium, which says how crap it is.

This is the crawdaunt we wanted. This will be amazing on sticky web teams and with tera, could be a monster. Probs drops to UU, but overall a great mon.

Medicore once again. Yeah, not really much to say. Will probably be amazing in PU, but nothing more, nothing less.

Could either be broken by tera, or medicore with it. It does trash both gambit + ghold, but recoil will limit its opportunities. This will most likely be a mid tier mon that can destroy some teams, but be stonewalled by others.

My boy is back. If this gets spikes, it will potentially have a niche in OU. The main reason this wouldn't be used is the weakness to grassy glide rillaboom + waterpon. Still, if you have ways around this or you tera it, it will be amazing.

This mon will switch between either being so fucking broken that people want to ban it or entirely dogshit that people wonder why it is still OU, determined by meta trends. Sticky web good? Seperior good. Booster energy pokemon good? Serperior bad.

Reckless flare blitz and head smash go brrrr.
252+ Atk Choice Band Reckless Tera Rock Emboar Head Smash vs. +1 0 HP / 0 Def Zamazenta: 138-162 (42.4 - 49.8%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Reckless Tera Rock Emboar Head Smash vs. +1 252 HP / 88 Def Zamazenta: 127-150 (32.7 - 38.6%) -- 5.1% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
Reminder, this is one of the bulkiest pokemon that is resistant to rock and has +1 in defense, could see a niche on sticky web teams

Honestly, this looks real nice. Could potentially see a set of dark move + flare blitz + fighting type move + pivot move being excellent. It hit gholdengo and kingambit for super effective damage on two of its moves, while getting momentum for the team on the switches. Will be even better if it keeps knock off and parting shot.

This both looks good and bad at the same time. Like swampert, hates grasses, and isn't the best into kingambit or ghold, despite being neutral to steel, due to not hitting them too hard. However, this looks amazing against valiant, which would be forced to run thunderbolt, which is a 3 hit ko, or leaf blade which is a two hit ko.
252 SpA Iron Valiant Thunderbolt vs. 252 HP / 120+ SpD Primarina: 136-160 (37.3 - 43.9%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 Atk Iron Valiant Leaf Blade vs. 252 HP / 136 Def Primarina: 214-252 (58.7 - 69.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
Will definetely be good, but is limited due to some weakness to common offensive mons.

 

[Hiddenfreezer]

Nobody considers it bad, it's just that it still (as far as we know) suffers from the same main problems it had in the previous gens, which would be having a base 75 SpA and lacking any kind of coverage besides Dragon Pulse. Even at +2 it "only" reaches a 498 Special Attack, which is worse than Valiant, Wake, Moth or Enamorus at +1, and barely better than Specs Pult, which is significantly faster. Sure, it gets Tera Blast now, but what kinda mon do you want to get walled by? If you run Tera Blast Fire, Fairy or Ice you get walled by Heatran, and if you run Tera Ground you get walled by Corvi, Dnite, Torn-T and Zapdos. Furthermore, we now have even more vailable Unaware mons with Skeledirge and Clodsire, so you could still have trouble sweeping through a Balanced/Fat team. The only thing that could turn Serperior into a threat is its Sub+Glare set, which has the potential to win with hax, but even then it would be fairly inconsistent. Serperior could become one of the main factors of Sticky Web strategies disappearing from the meta, though.
So that's pretty much it. It's definitely not gonna be bad, but unless Game Freak gives it Earth Power, Focus Blast and Ice Beam, it still won't ever be enough to overwhelm the meta just because of Tera Blast. It also doesn't help the fact that now we have plenty of mons that can outspeed it and revenge-kill it.

I agree with you - I may overhype it in theory. 113 Speed is nice for outspeeding for example Walking Wake but... we have things like Infiltrator Dragapult.

I am still excited however as for example Sub Serperior is capable of the following niche

252 Atk Garganacl Salt Cure vs. 56 HP / 0 Def Serperior: 58-69 (19 - 22.6%) -- possible 6HKO after Leftovers recovery

That means Sub Glare/Leech Seed Leaf Storm Tera Blast is capable to setup on Garg and spread paralysis / start setting up.

Also Glare is really good.

 

[Heatranator]

Anways, the new move psychic voice could be amazing on wallbreakers as it punishes recovery moves. In the trailer they literally showed it being used against dondozo, so that mons stonks are going to go down. It also makes me make dumb sets like resto-chesto ting lu and rest garchomp, so my elo will thank me for it.

 

[Hiddenfreezer]

Anways, the new move psychic voice could be amazing on wallbreakers as it punishes recovery moves. In the trailer they literally showed it being used against dondozo, so that mons stonks are going to go down. It also makes me make dumb sets like resto-chesto ting lu and rest garchomp, so my elo will thank me for it.

I hope the distribution is high; as far as I am aware heal block always blocked moves like Giga Drain as well as Leftovers. Kinda hype so it most likely it gets banned...

 

[Just A Shroom God]

I hope the distribution is high; as far as I am aware heal block always blocked moves like Giga Drain as well as Leftovers. Kinda hype so it most likely it gets banned...

eh, it's a presumably low-bp psychic type move, I don't think anything will run it except for the express purpose of breaking fat, and if it works like heal block, which doesn't stop regenerator, I don't think it'll even be good at that.

 

[Moyashi]

eh, it's a presumably low-bp psychic type move, I don't think anything will run it except for the express purpose of breaking fat, and if it works like heal block, which doesn't stop regenerator, I don't think it'll even be good at that.

presumed based on what exactly? There isn’t any reason to believe it would be low bp and anything, if you watch the trailer it looks around to be maybe 70bp minimum which for a move with such a potent secondary effect, is worth it. Like imagine Latios for example getting the move and clicking it on specs. Even if resisted, the damage plus hazard chip that mons won’t be able to heal off is big

Also yeah it’s kinda designed to be anti defense as a move

 

[Ibaragi]

Never been a fan of starters tbh, I drop them into the PC ingame by the time they reach their last stage and don't take time trying to put them into teams... except for Primarina (and Skeledirge, but he's too new to count yet and not the point here).
I struggle to see her having a role in OU unless we drop Chi-Yu and fancy AV Primarina, which is unlikely to happen. Nevertheless, I will use her on all tiers that she's available until I find a place for her, and expect her utility to be more BO-oriented than anything else.
Now, I mentioned it jokingly, but AV Primarina has the combination of typing and natural special bulk to make her a potentially interesting pick if the post-DLC meta has enough special attackers, although being in a weird spot against Iron Moth, our current premier Specially-oriented offensive mon will prove to be a problem.
Defensive with Leftovers, Sub CM and Specs all fit more UU's power level, though, but I'll be glad to be wrong if she's given some new tools or new mons just happen to give her a solid role here.

 

[YubelVT]

Reckless flare blitz and head smash go brrrr.
252+ Atk Choice Band Reckless Tera Rock Emboar Head Smash vs. +1 0 HP / 0 Def Zamazenta: 138-162 (42.4 - 49.8%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Reckless Tera Rock Emboar Head Smash vs. +1 252 HP / 88 Def Zamazenta: 127-150 (32.7 - 38.6%) -- 5.1% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
Reminder, this is one of the bulkiest pokemon that is resistant to rock and has +1 in defense, could see a niche on sticky web teams

:nerd: Emboar is actually neautral to rock not resistant

In all seriousness though y'all are definitely sleeping on serp. As seen with talonflame (who coincidentally has one less base special attack than serp), a mid at best special attack stat can be compensated for almost completely with a 120 STAB Move, and Serp's gets stronger every time it uses it. And going off of its gen 7 move pool (which is probably wrong but what else can I do lmao), it has a pretty wide utility movepool even if its attacking options are mid outside of leaf storm. Taunt, glare, defog, knock off, even sub seed. I think serp, while definitely not as strong as it was in past gens, will still be pretty good in OU, provided h-goodra doesn't suddenly get a massive stat buff and become genuinely good as opposed to niche.

 

[Wolf-X]

About the starters, depends on changes but Serperior will have some niche in OU, it imo lacks the speed or raw power (it starts kinda slow) to be a big threat, but in some situations it can cause trouble, it is very Tera dependent, otherwise is fairly easy to wall, has some annoying glare, substitute sets.

Venusaur will depend on his coverage options really, tera could vary. It will be good and gives some extra tools for sun teams

 

[Superior Serperior]

This both looks good and bad at the same time. Like swampert, hates grasses, and isn't the best into kingambit or ghold, despite being neutral to steel, due to not hitting them too hard. However, this looks amazing against valiant, which would be forced to run thunderbolt, which is a 3 hit ko, or leaf blade which is a two hit ko.
252 SpA Iron Valiant Thunderbolt vs. 252 HP / 120+ SpD Primarina: 136-160 (37.3 - 43.9%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 Atk Iron Valiant Leaf Blade vs. 252 HP / 136 Def Primarina: 214-252 (58.7 - 69.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
Will definetely be good, but is limited due to some weakness to common offensive mons.

That's an interesting ev spread. Where did you get it from? I was interested in messing around with primarina sets because it's a Mon I like, and I'm wondering what that investment achieves.

Also on the topic of starters, I wonder if Serperior would want to run Dragon Pulse on top of Tera Fire Tera Blast and Leaf Storm for better neutral coverage, like how Firepon sometimes ran Play Rough for dragons, or if it's not worth the effort. You'd still get walled hard by the likes of Dirge, but you'd also be able to hit things like Dnite that would give you trouble otherwise.

 

[Just A Shroom God]

presumed based on what exactly? There isn’t any reason to believe it would be low bp and anything, if you watch the trailer it looks around to be maybe 70bp minimum which for a move with such a potent secondary effect, is worth it. Like imagine Latios for example getting the move and clicking it on specs. Even if resisted, the damage plus hazard chip that mons won’t be able to heal off is big

Also yeah it’s kinda designed to be anti defense as a move

I mean, the difference between a 70 bp move and a 90 bp move is kinda significant.
Here are some calcs to prove my point:

spoilers are cool

(I changed psycho cut to special and removed leftovers to emulate its effect

252 SpA Latias Psychic vs. 252 HP / 64 SpD Toxapex: 186-218 (61.1 - 71.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 SpA Latias Psycho Cut vs. 252 HP / 64 SpD Toxapex: 144-170 (47.3 - 55.9%) -- 78.5% chance to 2HKO
252 SpA Latias Psychic vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Ogerpon-Wellspring: 135-160 (44.8 - 53.1%) -- 31.3% chance to 2HKO
252 SpA Latias Psycho Cut vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Ogerpon-Wellspring: 105-124 (34.8 - 41.1%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252 SpA Latias Psychic vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Dragapult: 165-195 (52 - 61.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 SpA Latias Psycho Cut vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Dragapult: 129-153 (40.6 - 48.2%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252 SpA Latias Psychic vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Enamorus: 157-186 (54.3 - 64.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 SpA Latias Psycho Cut vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Enamorus: 123-145 (42.5 - 50.1%) -- 1.2% chance to 2HKO
252 SpA Latias Psychic vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Iron Moth: 242-288 (80.3 - 95.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
252 SpA Latias Psycho Cut vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Iron Moth: 188-224 (62.4 - 74.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
252 SpA Latias Psychic vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Rillaboom: 177-208 (51.9 - 60.9%) -- 94.1% chance to 2HKO after Grassy Terrain recovery
252 SpA Latias Psycho Cut vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Rillaboom: 136-162 (39.8 - 47.5%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Grassy Terrain recovery

Now obviously none of these are really relevant- Obviously Moth isn't going to stick in on latias anyway and latias won't be used over latios for SpA- investing sets, but the point was to illustrate the power difference. You lose a lot of OHKOs or 2HKO's by running PN over Psychic, and for a secondary effect that's middling. You become very much worse at offense in exchange for mildly annoying defense, since not only can Blissey probably beat it, they can also PP stall the move with a regenerator core a la salt cure. If all else fails, it's worth noting that stall can just slap on a tera dark somewhere, like we did with espathra, and boom, threat completely neutralized.

also, metagame king lokix completely stuffs the move. Checkmate, n00bs.

 

[Moyashi]

[

and for a secondary effect that's middling.

??? Blocking recovery is not middling.

since not only can Blissey probably beat it

Without recovery blisses becomes a dead blob that does nothing. It won’t beat it. Also some of your chosen calls are super questionable

252 SpA Latias Psychic vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Ogerpon-Wellspring: 135-160 (44.8 - 53.1%) -- 31.3% chance to 2HKO
252 SpA Latias Psycho Cut vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Ogerpon-Wellspring: 105-124 (34.8 - 41.1%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252 SpA Latias Psychic vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Dragapult: 165-195 (52 - 61.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 SpA Latias Psycho Cut vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Dragapult: 129-153 (40.6 - 48.2%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

Why are you calling psychic stab vs these threats when it just clicks dragon stab? Also psychic noise shutting off Ogerpon horn leech would still have value especially as it notoriously gets worn down by hazards so…

it's worth noting that stall

Bulky offense and balance exist as viable styles too you know.

 

[Slowpoke Fan]

Bulky offense and balance exist as viable styles too you know.

Perhaps not too viable this generation...

 

[1LDK]

potentially good sun sweeper, its a decently bulky and fast grass type, combined with wake and ceruledge I can see it making waves

shell smash

no

I have some ideas on how to use this mon, this could be fun, I guess Gyarados works too for thiss but idk

I can already see some people trying to sell me on a shitty mix set because "it lures tusk" yes bro, the accident was 10 years ago, please let it go, let me go to heaven

was not broken in gen 8 because gen 8 IS STALL / FAT BALANCE META and I don't give a shit of the real explanation, you can also do what people do against iron valiant, and you know, HIT THE FUCKING THING, could be broken, but I think it's gonna be fine, at the start at least, I could be wrong

depends on what it keeps and what loses, but probably loses scald and will 100% lose toxic, good wall in lower tiers

Now this and primarina are the ones I'm stopping for, this thing is gonna be either broken or at least incredibly annoying and everyone is underestimating it, one thing is contrary leaf storm, but sub leech seed and glare are very real things that help you stall break or just shit on everything, glare shits on a lot of mons, so you can just put sub hex pult into work, or even alleviate slow power houses like hoopa who would like leech seed, and serperior has a reputation for boosting and helping broken mons in becoming even more broken. And yes, it is a tera glutton, but so are mons like garganacl (broken) kingambit (not broken but 100% a real menace to consider) and others, I guess tera grass heatran still stuffs it with tera grass, but this thing will put iron valiant in the fraud list and show you what a real cleaner is

cringe

also kind of cringe, but he is king in vgc, so I don't think he is crying in his sleep

I also want to stop on this girl, and this is kind of a rant, In gen 8 I was wondering why nobody used Liquid Voice alongside Hyper Voice, the reason is because gen 8 ou is the worst meta of all time and will do everything so that you cannot have fun in this dog shit ass dumpster fire of a slugfest. So specs scald or cm scald was generally just better

But now, with all the sub going around, I can see this becoming something cooler

180 SpA Dragapult Hex (130 BP) vs. +1 252 HP / 0+ SpD Primarina: 90-106 (24.7 - 29.1%) -- 99.9% chance to 4HKO after Leftovers recovery and burn damage

+1 0 SpA Liquid Voice Primarina Hyper Voice vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Dragapult: 112-132 (35.3 - 41.6%) -- 84.9% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery

So you can basically shit on most things because this meta is more offense oriented, you need to be careful with set up, but it's okay

And based on the gen 8 pool of moves, it has stored power, encore, coverage in energy ball, ice beam, shadow ball (even tho its stabs are mostly good enough for the job) and weather ball if you wanna lure

You can also do this

252+ SpA Choice Specs Beads of Ruin Tera Fire Chi-Yu Overheat vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Primarina in Sun: 311-366 (85.4 - 100.5%) -- 6.3% chance to OHKO

depending on coverage It has troubles with shit like pex, amoongus, volcanion and dengo, but I can still see it working, I'm kinda hyped for this mon

Overall, I'm hoping DLC 2 shakes the meta a lot because holy fuck DLC1 has been a shit meta

 

[FayaWizard]

potentially good sun sweeper, its a decently bulky and fast grass type, combined with wake and ceruledge I can see it making waves

shell smash

no

I have some ideas on how to use this mon, this could be fun, I guess Gyarados works too for thiss but idk

I can already see some people trying to sell me on a shitty mix set because "it lures tusk" yes bro, the accident was 10 years ago, please let it go, let me go to heaven

was not broken in gen 8 because gen 8 IS STALL / FAT BALANCE META and I don't give a shit of the real explanation, you can also do what people do against iron valiant, and you know, HIT THE FUCKING THING, could be broken, but I think it's gonna be fine, at the start at least, I could be wrong

depends on what it keeps and what loses, but probably loses scald and will 100% lose toxic, good wall in lower tiers

Now this and primarina are the ones I'm stopping for, this thing is gonna be either broken or at least incredibly annoying and everyone is underestimating it, one thing is contrary leaf storm, but sub leech seed and glare are very real things that help you stall break or just shit on everything, glare shits on a lot of mons, so you can just put sub hex pult into work, or even alleviate slow power houses like hoopa who would like leech seed, and serperior has a reputation for boosting and helping broken mons in becoming even more broken. And yes, it is a tera glutton, but so are mons like garganacl (broken) kingambit (not broken but 100% a real menace to consider) and others, I guess tera grass heatran still stuffs it with tera grass, but this thing will put iron valiant in the fraud list and show you what a real cleaner is

cringe

also kind of cringe, but he is king in vgc, so I don't think he is crying in his sleep

I also want to stop on this girl, and this is kind of a rant, In gen 8 I was wondering why nobody used Liquid Voice alongside Hyper Voice, the reason is because gen 8 ou is the worst meta of all time and will do everything so that you cannot have fun in this dog shit ass dumpster fire of a slugfest. So specs scald or cm scald was generally just better

But now, with all the sub going around, I can see this becoming something cooler

180 SpA Dragapult Hex (130 BP) vs. +1 252 HP / 0+ SpD Primarina: 90-106 (24.7 - 29.1%) -- 99.9% chance to 4HKO after Leftovers recovery and burn damage

+1 0 SpA Liquid Voice Primarina Hyper Voice vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Dragapult: 112-132 (35.3 - 41.6%) -- 84.9% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery

So you can basically shit on most things because this meta is more offense oriented, you need to be careful with set up, but it's okay

And based on the gen 8 pool of moves, it has stored power, encore, coverage in energy ball, ice beam, shadow ball (even tho its stabs are mostly good enough for the job) and weather ball if you wanna lure

You can also do this

252+ SpA Choice Specs Beads of Ruin Tera Fire Chi-Yu Overheat vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Primarina in Sun: 311-366 (85.4 - 100.5%) -- 6.3% chance to OHKO

depending on coverage It has troubles with shit like pex, amoongus, volcanion and dengo, but I can still see it working, I'm kinda hyped for this mon

Overall, I'm hoping DLC 2 shakes the meta a lot because holy fuck DLC1 has been a shit meta

I think Primarina will struggle, especially with the prominence of Wellspring and Rillaboom right now, as well as the rise of Zapdos. It also doesn't like the rise of Amoonguss, which resists both of its stabs, can clear smog boosts, then put it to sleep.